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Arizona Bans Race and Sex-Selective Abortion

Banning Race and Sex-Selective Abortions Confronts a Problem That Doesn't Exist

Yesterday, Arizona became the first state to make abortions based on sex or race a felony. But there's no evidence selective abortions are actually happening.

Most abortions take place before doctors can determine the sex of a fetus. As for race, Republican lawmakers argued the law was needed because a large percentage of abortions are sought by minority women, implying that minority women abort fetuses due to their race. That's some serious twisting of logic. The higher number of abortions among minorities just couldn't have anything to do with low access to birth control or a higher rate of poverty, could it?

So what's the real motivation for the law? Opponents argue the intention is to create obstacles for minorities seeking abortion. And by creating categories of criminalized abortions, all Arizona women might now have to justify their abortions. It also gives rights to a fetus which opens the door for criminalizing abortion in general.

A statement from the governor's spokesperson on the law suggests that's the goal, "Governor Brewer believes society has the responsibility to protect its most vulnerable, the unborn."

What do you make of the new law?

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mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
I guess it would depend on what your definition of "can't afford them" is. While for all intents and purposes, I could TECHNICALLY afford a child... I could go on WIC and accept government subsidized health care. I could quit school and finish my education. I could force a man who had no interest in having a child with me's hand to support us... but why would I? I would be resentful of that child for the rest of my life. For ruining me financially, for forcing me to accept government assistance, for stopping me from achieving my dreams... so "can't afford them" is a mixed concept.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
I guess it would depend on what your definition of "can't afford them" is. While for all intents and purposes, I could TECHNICALLY afford a child... I could go on WIC and accept government subsidized health care. I could quit school and finish my education. I could force a man who had no interest in having a child with me's hand to support us... but why would I? I would be resentful of that child for the rest of my life. For ruining me financially, for forcing me to accept government assistance, for stopping me from achieving my dreams... so "can't afford them" is a mixed concept.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
I don't fear sex.Thanks.I'm just committed to having sex when I'm ready in a loving marriage and that as such, if we have a child, we'd be more emotionally, and monetarily ready for one (as much as one could be anyway)I'm not judging others that choose otherwise. All my main point ever was and is, is that abortion should be illegal. Whether it be someone in a marriage that gets pregnant, to someone that's not married, to a teen, anyone, no matter the circumstance, our goal should be preserving life. And before ye say what kinda life will they have if we make them have the life, it is life regardless and a lot of abortions are not because of they can't afford them, but rather it is inconvenient. But we can agree to disagree ;)
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
I don't fear sex. Thanks. I'm just committed to having sex when I'm ready in a loving marriage and that as such, if we have a child, we'd be more emotionally, and monetarily ready for one (as much as one could be anyway) I'm not judging others that choose otherwise. All my main point ever was and is, is that abortion should be illegal. Whether it be someone in a marriage that gets pregnant, to someone that's not married, to a teen, anyone, no matter the circumstance, our goal should be preserving life. And before ye say what kinda life will they have if we make them have the life, it is life regardless and a lot of abortions are not because of they can't afford them, but rather it is inconvenient. But we can agree to disagree ;)
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
I agree with both of you, I truly do have no real credibility. I do "feel" that abortion kills a child, and the law agrees with both of you that it is not murder. I have no "proof" that those cells are a child. But my stance stands, because if that sack of cells was left alone, it would become a child, so therefore it is a child to me. It makes no sense that someone could be convicted of two murders when killing a pregnant woman. I'm not the closest Catholic and I don't believe anyone should blindly believe in religion, but religion is more about the values it teaches, not about the teachers that choose to be false prophets. You believe in Democracy right? Doesn't mean you accept all the leaders even if of your own political affiliation. I just brought religion up because I wanted to say that even religious people believe in contraception. If my boyfriend and I of two years get married, and have sex, and unfortunately get pregnant before we are ready, then maybe I will have more sympathetic views to those who do choose abortion. Because I will never put myself in an unmarried position to consider abortion, I will never understand like Monday completely what abortion means. But that doesn't mean I can't have a voice. But please don't urge me to get some sexual experience. If less people had sexual experience, then maybe abortion rates wouldn't be so high in the first place. You both seem to be educated, realistic people and are comfortable and open with your sexuality and take care of yourselves. People shouldn't go out at get "experience" for kicks. People should be ready and unfortunately teens think they are ready. And then when accidents happen, they think an abortion is a good solution. I don't know, lots of people choose abortion for differing reasons, I don't claim to know or understand why, but for me, even rape is not a reason to abort. Because my mother didn't abort my brother...a lot of people don't think like me, but that's that. I think at least legally, there should be restrictions. But anyway, thanks for all your discussion. I have to go out of town in an hour so I must get ready. Have a good weekend you guys.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
I agree with both of you, I truly do have no real credibility. I do "feel" that abortion kills a child, and the law agrees with both of you that it is not murder. I have no "proof" that those cells are a child.But my stance stands, because if that sack of cells was left alone, it would become a child, so therefore it is a child to me. It makes no sense that someone could be convicted of two murders when killing a pregnant woman.I'm not the closest Catholic and I don't believe anyone should blindly believe in religion, but religion is more about the values it teaches, not about the teachers that choose to be false prophets. You believe in Democracy right? Doesn't mean you accept all the leaders even if of your own political affiliation. I just brought religion up because I wanted to say that even religious people believe in contraception. If my boyfriend and I of two years get married, and have sex, and unfortunately get pregnant before we are ready, then maybe I will have more sympathetic views to those who do choose abortion. Because I will never put myself in an unmarried position to consider abortion, I will never understand like Monday completely what abortion means. But that doesn't mean I can't have a voice.But please don't urge me to get some sexual experience. If less people had sexual experience, then maybe abortion rates wouldn't be so high in the first place. You both seem to be educated, realistic people and are comfortable and open with your sexuality and take care of yourselves. People shouldn't go out at get "experience" for kicks. People should be ready and unfortunately teens think they are ready. And then when accidents happen, they think an abortion is a good solution. I don't know, lots of people choose abortion for differing reasons, I don't claim to know or understand why, but for me, even rape is not a reason to abort. Because my mother didn't abort my brother...a lot of people don't think like me, but that's that. I think at least legally, there should be restrictions.But anyway, thanks for all your discussion. I have to go out of town in an hour so I must get ready. Have a good weekend you guys.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
I think that's what it boils down to, JJJ. You "feel" about abortion. Funny thing is, facts have a liberal bias. It doesn't matter how you "feel" about a small series of cells, when the fact is, they are not a baby or a person. Law is based on fact. Well, at least it should be. How a corporation has become a person is far beyond me, but that's completely off topic.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
Monday, I stated it as what it "could" become because you said not to call it a baby. And no, I don't think masturbation is killing someone either. If you choose to have an abortion, so be it, I don't agree with it, but at the very least it seems you are of sound decision and are ready to make that choice. I think too many times, someone doesn't think it through or is too young to make such an important decision. space, this is not a Catholic debate. My beliefs on abortion probably come from Catholicism but i have personally held them. I am for gay marriage, Catholicism isn't...so I like to think that as an EDUCATED person, I can feel any way I want about fetuses being babies and think what I want about sex and sexuality. As a 24 year old virgin, I can't know many things about sex, but I do know how I feel about abortion and that will never change. Yes, Catholic priests have molested others. So have other ministers. So have other people. No religion or person is perfect, but that's completely off topic anyway. Life is a priority to me. And as I firmly believe that life begins at conception, I will hope for the future on that matter, and I am NOT with the crazed pro-lifers trying to take away everything from women, and only have abstinence-only education and the like, so In saying that, I just wanted to make sure that you didn't lump me in with people like that. There are varying levels of pro-life people.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
Monday, I stated it as what it "could" become because you said not to call it a baby. And no, I don't think masturbation is killing someone either. If you choose to have an abortion, so be it, I don't agree with it, but at the very least it seems you are of sound decision and are ready to make that choice. I think too many times, someone doesn't think it through or is too young to make such an important decision.space, this is not a Catholic debate. My beliefs on abortion probably come from Catholicism but i have personally held them. I am for gay marriage, Catholicism isn't...so I like to think that as an EDUCATED person, I can feel any way I want about fetuses being babies and think what I want about sex and sexuality. As a 24 year old virgin, I can't know many things about sex, but I do know how I feel about abortion and that will never change.Yes, Catholic priests have molested others. So have other ministers. So have other people. No religion or person is perfect, but that's completely off topic anyway.Life is a priority to me. And as I firmly believe that life begins at conception, I will hope for the future on that matter, and I am NOT with the crazed pro-lifers trying to take away everything from women, and only have abstinence-only education and the like, so In saying that, I just wanted to make sure that you didn't lump me in with people like that. There are varying levels of pro-life people.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
And part of the problem with anti-choicers is that while maybe you are a person who solely upholds that you morally believe abortion is wrong, many of them do take it to extremes regarding birth control, sex education,etc. And when you allow legislation like this to move forward, you open the door to restricting women in ways that go far beyond the right to abortion. I'm not going to have children. And I'm going to tell you this: If in my future, something goes wrong and I get pregnant again, I will have an abortion. And I will do that whether Roe v. Wade is overturned or not, in any way I can. Many women today, and statistics show in the past, have felt the same.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
And part of the problem with anti-choicers is that while maybe you are a person who solely upholds that you morally believe abortion is wrong, many of them do take it to extremes regarding birth control, sex education,etc. And when you allow legislation like this to move forward, you open the door to restricting women in ways that go far beyond the right to abortion. I'm not going to have children. And I'm going to tell you this: If in my future, something goes wrong and I get pregnant again, I will have an abortion. And I will do that whether Roe v. Wade is overturned or not, in any way I can. Many women today, and statistics show in the past, have felt the same.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
While I support your ideals regarding sex education, I cannot understand how a person with an education regards a fetus as a life. You even ACKNOWLEDGE that in your mind it's about what it COULD become. So... is masturbation a crime in your mind too? Because, rightly, when a man masturbates, he's killing a bunch of sperm that could eventually be a baby. And he could be doing it because he knows his children will be white/black/purple.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get, for lack of a better way to say what I mean lol. People that want children, and try and have them could end up being horrible parents. People that want children, their kids could have horrible lives regardless of parents. Adoptive parents, I would think would be excited they finally get the chance to be parents and would be good, but that's not necessarily the case. Life is not something WE can decide on. If you're sexually active, be prepared to face the consequences, I'm not forcing you, I'm just saying, you have to have a backup plan, whether it be adoption or motherhood. It's not just something to be disposed of.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get, for lack of a better way to say what I mean lol.People that want children, and try and have them could end up being horrible parents. People that want children, their kids could have horrible lives regardless of parents. Adoptive parents, I would think would be excited they finally get the chance to be parents and would be good, but that's not necessarily the case. Life is not something WE can decide on. If you're sexually active, be prepared to face the consequences, I'm not forcing you, I'm just saying, you have to have a backup plan, whether it be adoption or motherhood. It's not just something to be disposed of.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
I'm sorry, I was trying to respond to Monday and it did get all jumbled.Point being, I'm not your average "anti-everything sex" pro-lifer.I myself don't have sex, and am a Catholic. But I am for contraception and sex education which I never got in Catholic school.People are going to have sex. And people might end up pregnant. Yes, adoptions may not go perfectly. But, you can't use that as a crux to say that your "fetus" will not have better life and thus death is a better option.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
I'm sorry, I was trying to respond to Monday and it did get all jumbled. Point being, I'm not your average "anti-everything sex" pro-lifer. I myself don't have sex, and am a Catholic. But I am for contraception and sex education which I never got in Catholic school. People are going to have sex. And people might end up pregnant. Yes, adoptions may not go perfectly. But, you can't use that as a crux to say that your "fetus" will not have better life and thus death is a better option.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
The only thing I want to tell people is not have an abortion.I believe in sexuality, I think there are people with such misconceptions that people that are pro-life are anti-sex. I believe if you want to have premarital sex, do it! Enjoy, but be safe.I believe in sex education. I believe in better education as I am a teacher myself. I believe in parents not being so dumb and realizing, "hey my kid is most likely going to have sex I should probably just accept that and get them on the pill or get them condoms, etc". I believe in offering contraception to teenagers and people that cannot afford it. I'm for anything that will reduce abortions. I'm for sterilization, that should be a woman/man's choice if that's something they want. The only thing I am against is abortion.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
The only thing I want to tell people is not have an abortion. I believe in sexuality, I think there are people with such misconceptions that people that are pro-life are anti-sex. I believe if you want to have premarital sex, do it! Enjoy, but be safe.I believe in sex education. I believe in better education as I am a teacher myself. I believe in parents not being so dumb and realizing, "hey my kid is most likely going to have sex I should probably just accept that and get them on the pill or get them condoms, etc". I believe in offering contraception to teenagers and people that cannot afford it. I'm for anything that will reduce abortions. I'm for sterilization, that should be a woman/man's choice if that's something they want. The only thing I am against is abortion.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
The future of America is in raising children who are loved, who the parents or the people are willing and able to support. The future of America is in providing better education, about sex, about life, along with basic academics. Instead of screaming bloody murder every time someone wants to talk to our children about the realities of sex, perhaps we should educate them on the myriad of ways pregnancy can be PREVENTED. THAT'S an effective way to reduce abortions. Maybe telling me as a 26-year old who gave a child up for adoption as a teenager and later had an abortion that I don't really know what I want yet and can't get voluntarily sterilized is a shitty thing to do. If you really want to change abortion in the world, and particularly in America, those are places to start. Stop telling me what I can and cannot do before those pregnancies occur.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
The future of America is in raising children who are loved, who the parents or the people are willing and able to support. The future of America is in providing better education, about sex, about life, along with basic academics. Instead of screaming bloody murder every time someone wants to talk to our children about the realities of sex, perhaps we should educate them on the myriad of ways pregnancy can be PREVENTED. THAT'S an effective way to reduce abortions. Maybe telling me as a 26-year old who gave a child up for adoption as a teenager and later had an abortion that I don't really know what I want yet and can't get voluntarily sterilized is a shitty thing to do. If you really want to change abortion in the world, and particularly in America, those are places to start. Stop telling me what I can and cannot do before those pregnancies occur.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
The view I am choosing to hold is that a baby, in my humble, bashed belief, is not a woman's right.And I don't really know what bond lies between a mother and the child or if her life will be unhappier even if the child is wanted...but all I know is how I feel, and many others feel, that while at conception, it is merely a bunch of cells, I know that that is the beginning of something more, a life, and as such, should be protected. By women. By men. And it is not a woman's right. I'd be more respective of the pro-choice movement, if they owned up to the fact that the child is not just a woman's "choice" but rather the abortion is the best choice for all involved, the child, and the father. I think too many times the father does not know about the child, even on this site, a wife aborted a child without her husbands knowledge. A baby is never a singular person's choice. But again, I use the word baby, and that is not how people feel. So, I'll just end with this, I can support women without thinking that every single thing they want is valid. And I am supporting many women who believe abortion is wrong, and the future of America that is being killed whether it is legal or not.
JJJSisters JJJSisters 5 years
The view I am choosing to hold is that a baby, in my humble, bashed belief, is not a woman's right. And I don't really know what bond lies between a mother and the child or if her life will be unhappier even if the child is wanted...but all I know is how I feel, and many others feel, that while at conception, it is merely a bunch of cells, I know that that is the beginning of something more, a life, and as such, should be protected. By women. By men. And it is not a woman's right. I'd be more respective of the pro-choice movement, if they owned up to the fact that the child is not just a woman's "choice" but rather the abortion is the best choice for all involved, the child, and the father. I think too many times the father does not know about the child, even on this site, a wife aborted a child without her husbands knowledge. A baby is never a singular person's choice. But again, I use the word baby, and that is not how people feel. So, I'll just end with this, I can support women without thinking that every single thing they want is valid. And I am supporting many women who believe abortion is wrong, and the future of America that is being killed whether it is legal or not.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
If you really care about life, how about getting behind programs like WIC? How about supporting mothers who were *forced* to have children before they were ready. I don't see an abortion as murder, any more than I see penicillin as murder for an infection. A fetus at that stage is not sentient. So stop calling it a "baby". No "babies" with Down Syndrome are being aborted. Fetuses with probable birth defects are being aborted.
mondaymoos mondaymoos 5 years
If you really care about life, how about getting behind programs like WIC? How about supporting mothers who were *forced* to have children before they were ready. I don't see an abortion as murder, any more than I see penicillin as murder for an infection. A fetus at that stage is not sentient. So stop calling it a "baby". No "babies" with Down Syndrome are being aborted. Fetuses with probable birth defects are being aborted.
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