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Biggest Headlines of 2008: California Voters Pass Gay Marriage Ban

In November, California passed Prop 8 with 53 percent of the vote, changing the state Constitution to repeal same-sex marriage. The state's Supreme Court legalized gay marriage earlier this year, but the amendment limits marriage to heterosexual couples. Similar bans have been set in 27 states, but none of those states had previously legalized marriage.

Following the ruling, opponents filed suits, held rallies, and lashed out at the Mormon church for its well-funded campaign supporting the prop. In late November, the California Supreme Court accepted three lawsuits taking on Proposition 8, but denied the requests to halt enforcement. Proponents have until Dec. 19 to file their return and brief. Even though California's same-sex marriage battles makes the cut for the biggest headlines of 2008, we still have to wait for the next chapter. Legal experts expect California Supreme Court will make a final decision in 2009.
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em1282 em1282 7 years
It's kind of amusing how people can ignore science in certain situations, but then, for lack of a better term, cling to it when it's more convenient."UnDave, you have successfully insulted the institution of adoption. Hooray!":rotfl:
em1282 em1282 7 years
It's kind of amusing how people can ignore science in certain situations, but then, for lack of a better term, cling to it when it's more convenient. "UnDave, you have successfully insulted the institution of adoption. Hooray!" :rotfl:
tiabia tiabia 7 years
UnDave, you have successfully insulted the institution of adoption. Hooray!
kastarte2 kastarte2 7 years
Mich I :heart: you. Dave, I feel sad for you. Being biologically related isn't enough. I hope you don't count on DNA to form the bond between you and your children.
kastarte2 kastarte2 7 years
Mich I :heart: you.Dave, I feel sad for you. Being biologically related isn't enough. I hope you don't count on DNA to form the bond between you and your children.
True-Song True-Song 7 years
Seriously. What is the point? No one brought up anything about creating or having or parenting. People just referred to a 5 year old wanting her gay parents to be allowed to be married. Are you trying to say that 5 year old doesn't have parents? Or that the gay couple aren't her "real" parents? Honestly, this is so ridiculous. There are a bajillion families made up of gay parents and adopted kids or kids produced via in vitro or surrogates. You don't get to decide what the best way is to structure a family.
amybdk amybdk 7 years
Great posts, Michelin. I'm kind of lost on the direction this thread is taking too. And for the record, I never used the word 'love', UnDave. I was using your word, 'bond'.
amybdk amybdk 7 years
Great posts, Michelin. I'm kind of lost on the direction this thread is taking too.And for the record, I never used the word 'love', UnDave. I was using your word, 'bond'.
Michelann Michelann 7 years
And if your point is simply that a homosexual couple can't have a child between the two of them, then that's a pretty silly point. First of all, it's obvious. Second of all, it's completely irrelevant to whether or not they can be parents. Parenting isn't about biology, it's about love. I pray that you, as a parent, know that already.
Michelann Michelann 7 years
UnDave, I'm a little confused as to what your ultimate point is supposed to be. Are you or are you not arguing that a biological parent-child relationship is stronger/better than an adopted parent-child relationship? Because, although your posts have been a little disjointed, that seems to be your point. And if it is, then I think it shows a serious confusion as to what a parent-child relationship is supposed to be.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
So I gather from the direction of this discussion is that homosexual parents can't create a child. They can adopt, but they can't make a child.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
T.S. - They can adopt a kid, but they can't "have" a child that is biologically theirs, I agree to that. That doesn't mean the parents would love them less, it just means that the child will most likely want to know about the biological parents, to the extint they may even go looking for them. It's from kids to their biological parents, not the other way. amydk - not saying you're parents love you less. Don't put words into my mouth.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
T.S. - They can adopt a kid, but they can't "have" a child that is biologically theirs, I agree to that. That doesn't mean the parents would love them less, it just means that the child will most likely want to know about the biological parents, to the extint they may even go looking for them. It's from kids to their biological parents, not the other way. amydk - not saying you're parents love you less. Don't put words into my mouth.
amybdk amybdk 7 years
I am also going to agree with True Song on this one. I have to say, UnDave, that I take offense to the following: True Song: Are you implying that the parent-child relationship between adoptive parents and children is somehow less than the relationship between bio parents and kids? UnDave35: Yes. There is a connection between bio parents and the child that can never be replaced. Why do you think so many adoptive children spend so much time looking for their mom's? It's not because they weren't loved by their adoptive parents. I agree that there can be a very special bond between biological parents and their children. But I do not for one second believe that that bond is superior to a bond that can be formed between others. I have a very special bond between me and my 2 adopted brothers and I don't consider that to be less than the one between my biological sisters. I'll be sure to ask my parents next time we chat if they feel their bond with my brothers is less than my bond with them.
amybdk amybdk 7 years
I am also going to agree with True Song on this one.I have to say, UnDave, that I take offense to the following:True Song: <i>Are you implying that the parent-child relationship between adoptive parents and children is somehow less than the relationship between bio parents and kids?</i>UnDave35: <i>Yes. There is a connection between bio parents and the child that can never be replaced. Why do you think so many adoptive children spend so much time looking for their mom's? It's not because they weren't loved by their adoptive parents.</i>I agree that there can be a very special bond between biological parents and their children. But I do not for one second believe that that bond is superior to a bond that can be formed between others. I have a very special bond between me and my 2 adopted brothers and I don't consider that to be less than the one between my biological sisters. I'll be sure to ask my parents next time we chat if they feel their bond with my brothers is <i>less</i> than my bond with them.
True-Song True-Song 7 years
"But I would think the 5 year old daughter of a gay couple.." This isn't a possibility. How does a gay couple have a kid? The answer is they don't. It isn't homophobia or bigotry, it's a fact. No ducking. A gay couple can have a daughter. It's called adoption. No, they can't create a fetus, but they can have a child. There's a difference. And your terminology is off in your response about finding out about being adopted. The "real" father is the one who raised the child, not the guy who dumped his sperm.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
"It confuses me that you think somebody who has sex and creates a child then splits is more of a 'parent' than somebody who steps up to raise and love a child that they didn't create."I never mentioned anything about "parenting". I asked "How does a gay couple create a 5yr old?" "Would you love your parents any less if you found out you were adopted? Or would you love your own child any less if you found out they were switched at birth, and not biologically related to you or your wife?"To answer the first question, I've witnessed that exact scenario, and yes the girl found herself loving her "new" father less, now that she knew he wasn't her "real" father. BTW, I've seen it more than once. In fact I've seen it enough times to see a pattern. To answer your second question, no, I would love the child regardless, but I would still strive to find the child that was mine. You would to, and you won't understand that until you have children.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
"It confuses me that you think somebody who has sex and creates a child then splits is more of a 'parent' than somebody who steps up to raise and love a child that they didn't create." I never mentioned anything about "parenting". I asked "How does a gay couple create a 5yr old?" "Would you love your parents any less if you found out you were adopted? Or would you love your own child any less if you found out they were switched at birth, and not biologically related to you or your wife?" To answer the first question, I've witnessed that exact scenario, and yes the girl found herself loving her "new" father less, now that she knew he wasn't her "real" father. BTW, I've seen it more than once. In fact I've seen it enough times to see a pattern. To answer your second question, no, I would love the child regardless, but I would still strive to find the child that was mine. You would to, and you won't understand that until you have children.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
"I think it's absolutely disgusting for you to imply that a gay couple (or any couple!) can't have a daughter just because their f*cking didn't produce it. Someone just mentioned a gay couple having a daughter, and you jump to, "How is that even possible?" You usually at least try to veil your bigotry and homophobia a little bit."That's a great duck. You still haven't mentioned how it's possible, and yet you've become absolutely disgusted with me."But I would think the 5 year old daughter of a gay couple.." This isn't a possibility. How does a gay couple have a kid? The answer is they don't. It isn't homophobia or bigotry, it's a fact.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
"I think it's absolutely disgusting for you to imply that a gay couple (or any couple!) can't have a daughter just because their f*cking didn't produce it. Someone just mentioned a gay couple having a daughter, and you jump to, "How is that even possible?" You usually at least try to veil your bigotry and homophobia a little bit." That's a great duck. You still haven't mentioned how it's possible, and yet you've become absolutely disgusted with me. "But I would think the 5 year old daughter of a gay couple.." This isn't a possibility. How does a gay couple have a kid? The answer is they don't. It isn't homophobia or bigotry, it's a fact.
Michelann Michelann 7 years
I have to agree with TrueSong here. It's ridiculous to suggest that parents and children bond because they're biologically related. The parent-child bond is about love and trust, not genetics. Would you love your parents any less if you found out you were adopted? Or would you love your own child any less if you found out they were switched at birth, and not biologically related to you or your wife? It confuses me that you think somebody who has sex and creates a child then splits is more of a 'parent' than somebody who steps up to raise and love a child that they didn't create.
Michelann Michelann 7 years
I have to agree with TrueSong here. It's ridiculous to suggest that parents and children bond because they're biologically related. The parent-child bond is about love and trust, not genetics. Would you love your parents any less if you found out you were adopted? Or would you love your own child any less if you found out they were switched at birth, and not biologically related to you or your wife? It confuses me that you think somebody who has sex and creates a child then splits is more of a 'parent' than somebody who steps up to raise and love a child that they didn't create.
True-Song True-Song 7 years
Just in case I wasn't completely clear: I think it's absolutely disgusting for you to imply that a gay couple (or any couple!) can't have a daughter just because their fucking didn't produce it. Someone just mentioned a gay couple having a daughter, and you jump to, "How is that even possible?" You usually at least try to veil your bigotry and homophobia a little bit.
True-Song True-Song 7 years
>Also, you can raise a child as your own, but the biological connection between a child and that child's parents is still stronger. Stronger than what? Stronger than your biological connection? Sure. Stronger than your relationship? Stronger than your family connection? Absolutely not. The bond between adopted children and their parents is just as strong as that between bio kids and their parents. You seem to have some grasp on the nuts and bolts of creating offspring, but you clearly don't know much about creating families.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
A lesbian couple could not create a child. A woman could get pregnant through invitro, but it's not created by the two women. The child is created by a woman and some man's contribution. Also, you can raise a child as your own, but the biological connection between a child and that child's parents is still stronger. You can deny that all you want, and insult me ("typical breeder arrogance"), but that doesn't change the facts. Instead of being appalled, maybe you should spend a little more time examining the truthfulness of the statement.
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