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kastarte2 kastarte2 7 years
Jude I love the little turtle! It is so cute!
Michelann Michelann 7 years
Jessie, I'm not trying to insult people who believe in socialism, and I never said anything negative about them (like you just said about those who don't believe in it). But to me, 'socialism' is a dirty word because I believe the system is unjust.
organicsugr organicsugr 7 years
Yes, it's only greedy when people want to keep the money that they earned. It's not greedy when they want other people's money.
Jessiebanana Jessiebanana 7 years
Michelin I think that calling anyone's beliefs "a dirty word" isn't very nice...I'm using that phrase a lot lately. I tend to think of the opposite of democratic socialism as selfish, greedy and evil in a Mr. Burns kind of way, but I don't say it cause I TRY to have respect for other people's ideas...I don't always succeed in my head, but I at least try.
Jude-C Jude-C 7 years
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 7 years
lil I LOVE your avi!!! SOOOOO cute.. :)
HeatherStJoeMI HeatherStJoeMI 7 years
I'm in agreement with Jessiebanana.
liliblu liliblu 7 years
Late to the party and off topic but Harmony and Mommaof2, I love turtles. Those who do not simply "Fear the Turtle".
Michelann Michelann 7 years
Jill, it doesn't matter what anybody says (especially not a man who is endorsing Obama). There is no way to convince me that redistribution of wealth is not socialism. Obama wants to increase the level of redistribution, which is why "most people in this country would benefit under and Obama tax plan". They're benefiting at the detriment of those who earn $250,000 or more per year.
Jillness Jillness 7 years
From TIME: He attacks Obama's tax plan as a form of "spreading the wealth"--the words Obama used when talking to Joe the Unlicensed Tax Dodger in Ohio--because Obama would reduce taxes on the middle class and pay for it by restoring Clinton-era marginal tax rates on the wealthy. And yet, McCain proudly voted for a major tax hike and wealth redistribution scheme in his early days in his early days in Congress. In fact he touts it regularly, including on Fox News Sunday, as bipartisan cooperation at its finest: "Ronald Reagan's agenda was very different from that of Tip O'Neill's. Yet Ronald Reagan and Tip O'NEILL sat down together across the table and sat down and worked out a way to save Social Security for quite a period of time." In fact, that was an enormous--and necessary--tax increase, but it tilted heavily against working Americans. Payroll taxes have been increased no fewer than seven times since Reagan was President and, so far as I know, never been cut--but large capital gains and marginal rate cuts, and all sorts of corporate loopholes, have been built into the tax system during that same period--a massive redistribution of wealth toward the wealthy.
Jillness Jillness 7 years
From TIME:He attacks Obama's tax plan as a form of "spreading the wealth"--the words Obama used when talking to Joe the Unlicensed Tax Dodger in Ohio--because Obama would reduce taxes on the middle class and pay for it by restoring Clinton-era marginal tax rates on the wealthy. <b>And yet, McCain proudly voted for a major tax hike and wealth redistribution scheme in his early days in his early days in Congress.</b> In fact he touts it regularly, including on Fox News Sunday, as bipartisan cooperation at its finest:"Ronald Reagan's agenda was very different from that of Tip O'Neill's. Yet Ronald Reagan and Tip O'NEILL sat down together across the table and sat down and worked out a way to save Social Security for quite a period of time."In fact, that was an enormous--and necessary--tax increase, but it tilted heavily against working Americans. <b>Payroll taxes have been increased no fewer than seven times since Reagan was President and, so far as I know, never been cut--but large capital gains and marginal rate cuts, and all sorts of corporate loopholes, have been built into the tax system during that same period--a massive redistribution of wealth toward the wealthy.<b>
Jillness Jillness 7 years
I have not heard any moderate economist say that Obama's plans are anything like socialism. The only people saying that are Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and people of that vein. It is the talking point, and they beat it into the ground, but it doesn't really reflect reality, IMO. They are just trying to distract from the fact that most people in this country would benefit under an Obama tax plan. How do you get people to vote against their own self interest? Scare them. Colin Powell: Powell said he had grown tired of McCain's negative campaigning and that the American people would prefer to focus on issues like education, infrastructure and the economy. He specifically slammed Palin's allegation that Obama's tax plan is socialist, calling it misleading. "For us to say that makes you a socialist, I think, is an unfortunate characterization that isn't accurate."
Jillness Jillness 7 years
I have not heard any moderate economist say that Obama's plans are anything like socialism. The only people saying that are Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and people of that vein. It is the talking point, and they beat it into the ground, but it doesn't really reflect reality, IMO. <b>They are just trying to distract from the fact that most people in this country would benefit under an Obama tax plan. How do you get people to vote against their own self interest? Scare them. </b>Colin Powell:Powell said he had grown tired of McCain's negative campaigning and that the American people would prefer to focus on issues like education, infrastructure and the economy. He specifically slammed Palin's allegation that Obama's tax plan is socialist, calling it misleading.<b>"For us to say that makes you a socialist, I think, is an unfortunate characterization that isn't accurate."
Jillness Jillness 7 years
I used to love Family Guy, but since they came back they haven't been as funny. Sometimes they are just random for the sake of being random.
momma-tikita momma-tikita 7 years
:)) honestly... i love turtles...just had to put hat in there!
momma-tikita momma-tikita 7 years
:)) honestly... i love turtles...just had to put hat in there!
Michelann Michelann 7 years
Meike, I don't really want to get into health care, but Obama's plan would not allow the system to be capitalistic. It is already so muddled by the government that it might be difficult to see, but it seems to me like Obama's system would just push it over the edge so that all the economic benefits of capitalism would be lost in the health care industry. I think perhaps you and I have a very different idea of what is a good balance of socialism and capitalism. Jessie, I see what you're saying, and certainly we're not instantly going to be a communist state when Obama is elected. But socialism has slowly been wearing away at this country for a long time, and I don't personally want to see one more step in that direction. I can understand why somebody who considers themselves a democratic socialist might not mind, but as far as I'm concerned, it is a dirty word.
Michelann Michelann 7 years
Meike, I don't really want to get into health care, but Obama's plan would not allow the system to be capitalistic. It is already so muddled by the government that it might be difficult to see, but it seems to me like Obama's system would just push it over the edge so that all the economic benefits of capitalism would be lost in the health care industry. I think perhaps you and I have a very different idea of what is a good balance of socialism and capitalism. Jessie, I see what you're saying, and certainly we're not instantly going to be a communist state when Obama is elected. But socialism has slowly been wearing away at this country for a long time, and I don't personally want to see one more step in that direction. I can understand why somebody who considers themselves a democratic socialist might not mind, but as far as I'm concerned, it <b>is</b> a dirty word.
Jessiebanana Jessiebanana 7 years
Michelin, I am a democratic socialist and proud. I think we can learn a lot about how run a better government from our European counterparts or maybe I'm just a bleeding heart. With all that said I don't think Obama is a socialist. We have a mixed economy and during stressful times we generally in act more socialist policies to keep esteem up and support the economy (ie the bail out). Its hard to say what kind of tax plan Obama would actually favor if we weren't under so much economic stress. The rich can't stay rich if no one from the middle class is doing well enough to spend any money (alsi known as a depression, far scarier that the recession we're looking at). The wealthy should look at their higher taxes as an invest towards future spending. Frankly I'm tired of hearing the word socialist thrown around like its a sin, not just because I am a democratic socialist, but because there is no way our entire nation of capitalism will be over turned in one presidency even if Obama were an extreme socialist. Now if we kept electing them then I would say that spoke to the desires of the community, but thats another story. Lets face it, I hate Bush, but not even Bush can completely ruin our government in 8 years. Its why presidency terms are so short in this country. In four years he will be, if he wins, up for reelection. If we hate his plan to get us out of the recession we can vote in someone new. If we like his plan for 8 years and then decide less government regulation is best once we are doing better economically we can vote in someone completely different. We have options and thats why its so awesome to be an American and take part in democratic process.
Jessiebanana Jessiebanana 7 years
Michelin, I am a democratic socialist and proud. I think we can learn a lot about how run a better government from our European counterparts or maybe I'm just a bleeding heart. With all that said I don't think Obama is a socialist. We have a mixed economy and during stressful times we generally in act more socialist policies to keep esteem up and support the economy (ie the bail out). Its hard to say what kind of tax plan Obama would actually favor if we weren't under so much economic stress. The rich can't stay rich if no one from the middle class is doing well enough to spend any money (alsi known as a depression, far scarier that the recession we're looking at). The wealthy should look at their higher taxes as an invest towards future spending.Frankly I'm tired of hearing the word socialist thrown around like its a sin, not just because I am a democratic socialist, but because there is no way our entire nation of capitalism will be over turned in one presidency even if Obama were an extreme socialist. Now if we kept electing them then I would say that spoke to the desires of the community, but thats another story. Lets face it, I hate Bush, but not even Bush can completely ruin our government in 8 years. Its why presidency terms are so short in this country. In four years he will be, if he wins, up for reelection. If we hate his plan to get us out of the recession we can vote in someone new. If we like his plan for 8 years and then decide less government regulation is best once we are doing better economically we can vote in someone completely different. We have options and thats why its so awesome to be an American and take part in democratic process.
Meike Meike 7 years
OS: That is a perfectly fine sentiment to have because I also find capitalism unchallenged equally terrifying. For anyone to say with Democrats in the White House that we are veering dangerously close to socialism or Marxism is quite an exaggeration. The U.S. (ranked no.5 in the world) enjoys an 80% free market economy versus the 70% free market economy that most Western European countries enjoy. http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm Hong Kong ranks no.1 but there is a great amount of corporate corruption occurring there. America faces the same issues. *coughwalmartaigexxoncough* No country is perfect but I believe there has to be a balance between capitalism and socialism and it falls on the ‘mostly free’ section of the index. Michelin: America is closer to a pure capitalistic state than many of its Western counterparts. Obama doesn’t need to introduce more capitalistic ventures. They already exist. You may argue that he has socialistic tendencies but not for their ‘extremity’ because they simply are not. We’re nowhere near what East Germany was before the Berlin wall crumbled which is why I choose to position him in the middle between the two extremes. For example, on the subject of healthcare, Obama wants to implement a national healthcare system. He is not eliminating the privatized health insurance industry. Both choices can coexist to provide health care for everyone. I have 100% medical, dental, and vision insurance with Cigna and Delta for the company I work for. I wouldn’t make the switch for Obama’s plan but it’s nice to see there is that option should I get laid off. Is it really difficult to understand that a mixed economy can embrace the best of capitalistic and socialistic ideals? In any case, at least half of Americans are adverse to it so it probably won’t work as effectively here as it does for countries like Germany, Japan, Taiwan, etc.
hope2be hope2be 7 years
jnj, I don't know about someone being religious=more homophobic tendencies, my fiancee is pretty against gay marriage but he's come from a liberal household who's in no way religious. He's liberal up until it hit the gay-marriage issue. While I come from a traditional religious family but I'm pro gay marriage and gay rights. I think people should be equal no matter their sexual orientation. As for moral judgment, I'd probably say for those who are condemning those who are not of similar sexual orientation, to look into themselves. I watched Family Guy once in awhile, frankly, I think that it's always trying to push button. Buttons. Got it. I think it can be viewed as offensive but hey, this is why I like forms of freedom of speech...
hope2be hope2be 7 years
jnj, I don't know about someone being religious=more homophobic tendencies, my fiancee is pretty against gay marriage but he's come from a liberal household who's in no way religious. He's liberal up until it hit the gay-marriage issue.While I come from a traditional religious family but I'm pro gay marriage and gay rights. I think people should be equal no matter their sexual orientation. As for moral judgment, I'd probably say for those who are condemning those who are not of similar sexual orientation, to look into themselves. I watched Family Guy once in awhile, frankly, I think that it's always trying to push button. Buttons. Got it. I think it can be viewed as offensive but hey, this is why I like forms of freedom of speech...
Adrenalynn75 Adrenalynn75 7 years
Ahahahahahahaha...never watched Family Guy, but that was hilarious!!!!!
jnj213 jnj213 7 years
**problem is a moral/ethical problem when involving religion
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