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Briefing Book! Obama Camp Calls McCain Sex-Ed Ad Perverse

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Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
Then we will have to agree to disagree. As an aside, I wouldn't have a problem with this legislation if it had remained grades 6 - 12. It's the 5- through 10-year-olds I have a problem with.
Mädchen Mädchen 7 years
I'm still not convinced. The way the whole bill is worded just doesn't make it sound as if it was really meant to be mandatory, it's just not explicit enough on that one. For example, this section: Sec. 27-9.2. Family Life. (a) If any school district provides courses of instruction designed to promote wholesome and comprehensive understanding of the emotional, psychological, physiological, hygienic and social responsibility aspects of family life, then such courses of instruction shall include the teaching of prevention of unintended pregnancy and all options related to unintended pregnancy, as appropriate to the various grade levels; and whenever such courses of instruction are provided in any of grades K through 12, then such courses also shall include age appropriate instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS. They actually give a definition of "medically accurate" and it has nothing to do with "explicit": "Medically accurate" means verified or supported by research conducted in compliance with scientific methods, published in peer-review journals, where appropriate, and recognized as accurate and objective by professional organizations and agencies with expertise in the relevant field.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
Directly from the legislation, a different excerpt (emphasis mine): (105 ILCS 110/3) (from Ch. 122, par. 863) 22 Sec. 3. Comprehensive Health Education Program. 23 (a) The program established under this Act shall 24 include, but not be limited to, the following major 25 educational areas as a basis for curricula in all elementary 26 and secondary schools in this State: human ecology and 27 health, human growth and development, the emotional, 28 psychological, physiological, hygienic and social 29 responsibilities of family life, including sexual abstinence 30 and prevention of unintended pregnancy until marriage, 31 prevention and control of disease, including age appropriate 32 instruction in grades K through 12 on the prevention of 33 sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, -10- LRB093 05269 NHT 05359 b 1 transmission and spread of HIV AIDS, ..." This tells me that: (1) Comprehensive sex ed is mandated, (2) The curriculum "shall include" (i.e., must include) instruction about pregnancy and disease. While they can say it should be "age appropriate", it's impossible to do so without a lot of details. Elsewhere, it also reads: "8 (b) All comprehensive health education programs 9 established under this Act shall satisfy the following 10 criteria: 11 (1) Factual information presented in course 12 material and instruction shall be medically accurate and 13 objective." To me, this means "explicit", at least to some degree. The reason some of my excerpts came out as reading "K 6 through 12" is because I copied and pasted, the original was revised from 6 through 12 to K through 12. (The strikeout didn't copy over accurately, probably a font issue.)
Mädchen Mädchen 7 years
I really don't think it is, Lainetm. The text talks about how any class that IS offered should be conducted, not about having to offer classes from grades K 6 through 12. Maybe I just keep missing it, but I really don't think I am.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
livvylove: I'm more interested in truth than partisanship. That's why I looked up the actual legislation. The link is cited earlier in this discussion. By the way, despite the lovely name, factcheck.org is suspect IMO. The footer at the bottom of the page reads: " Copyright © 2003 - 2008 Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania" The Annenberg foundation is behind one of the financial "questions" with Obama and William Ayers in Chicago.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
Mädchen, it's in the text of the legislation, which I quoted and linked earlier.
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Hypno, not too bad! (GS limps away.) :wink:
livvylove livvylove 7 years
If you're referring to McCain's ammo as lies, than you're right, they do have more. Just check out factcheck.org. None of McCain's recent adds are truths.
hypnoticmix hypnoticmix 7 years
Oh I see well at least I didn't rough you up too much, LOL.
Mädchen Mädchen 7 years
Lainetm, but where does it say that sex education is mandatory for kindergarten? I couldn't find that anywhere. I also do think you can talk about sexual transmitted infections in a way that is age appropriate.
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Hypno, in all fairness I didn't say one side was doing something the other wasn't. I merely made the observation that one side has made a campaign about changing up the whole Washington system, etc. But really is just the same old same old.
hypnoticmix hypnoticmix 7 years
Now GS I'm going to be gentle with you since you're with child. LOL. You know darn well that it is the standard for any campaign to put people on the ground to investigate their opponents. It is not the act of researching information that is in question. It is the act of placing opportunistic slants on the facts to make them appear to be something they're not. This style of politics is so entrenched in the norm but it doesn't make it right. Change on this point will not come from any candidate either. When Sen. Obama said that he was going to be above the negativity I wished him luck but I knew that his very survival in the campaign would require him to fight fire with fire. It doesn't work unless it's a collaborative effort. The real remedy will be when the masses turn a strong frustration into action against these tactics and only then will things begin to change.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
Aw, hypno, I'm sorry you're upset. Especially with all the stress of moving! I think campaign fatigue is setting in all around. I'm also sick of emotional, inflammatory tactics. GS: I have to problem with investigations. If there's dirt to be found--about any of the candidates--I want to know it. Now if the press would only cover Rezko, Ayers, the Annenberg Foundation, Rev. Wright, etc. as much as they do Bristol Palin's pregnancy....
hypnoticmix hypnoticmix 7 years
Well that's the thing yesteryear like my momma said two wrongs don't make a right. If we get into this game of well you did it 123 times and I only did it 67 times is one more right than the other? No. I am just so fatigued at the American public in general for being so dramatically swayed by such tactics. It honestly makes me have to consciously hold on to hope.
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
lol, they have more ammo! :wink: Also, how new washington is Obama sending 30+ lawyers and anylysts to Alaska with the sole job of digging up dirt on the VP candidate? Sheesh.
yesteryear yesteryear 7 years
this is not a partisan statement hypno... but do you really see both campaigns as equal in terms of these attack ads? in my opinion a LOT more has been coming from the mccain side.
hypnoticmix hypnoticmix 7 years
You know in this instance I am just totally pissed off at the McCain campaign but the fact of the matter is the shoe is equally on the other foot. There are no clean hands when it comes to these campaign tactics. Although the McCain campaign has been a bit furious in their underhanded tactics as of late the Obama campaign can not cry innocent victim. The reason this infuriates me so much is that when it comes down to it these campaign strategists are treating us like we're stupid, but rather than focus on the true insult which is toward us we choose to ride what ever band wagon of manipulation that comes flying out from either side.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
Adrenalynn, karenpanna, Mädchen: Whether you do or don't like the ad, go back and read the legislation. The info and link are in the comments above. Parental "opt out" rules are great, if the parents are informed of when these classes are taught and informed of their rights. I can tell you, that doesn't always happen. Even if it does, the kids who *are* in those classes will "share" with those who are not. Look back at the actual legislation. "Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS." It says that each class...offered...shall include instruction on ...sexually transmitted infections...." Age appropriateness aside, how can you truthfully do that without getting into the mechanics of sex? Michelin: You're the sensible exception that proves the rule. How many other kids get into "shenanigans" because of unmonitored internet access?
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 7 years
My mother didn't try to talk to me about sex until she thought I was having it. I found out at age 5 from classmates in kindergarten. I turned out just fine.
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Wait a minute, wait a minute, let me get a pen. Which author? :wink: I agree about some young adult books being fantastic. Some children's books are fantastic. I just think stephenie meyer's books could have been written by a tenth grade honors English student. The story is so predictable it is laughable. And the way everything is sewn up in the end. :oy: There is no real conflict. There are bits OBVIOUSLY borrowed from earlier vampire series. Enough so that I saw rantings on line of people saying the new series "true blood" stole her ideas because there were several glaring similarities. Negatory. Harris started writing her books in the nineties. It was the other way around. And, I also feel the book was a giant step back in what we should be teaching teenage girls about self-reliance and feminism.
kastarte2 kastarte2 7 years
As some one who works in a library, I can tell you that a lot of adults peruse the young adult section. They say a lot of those books have well developed plots because they don't relay on sensationalism to tell a story. :shrug: Also, people of all ages read Harry Potter and the Twilight series. Once something is on the best seller list for so long it gets attention. I read the Twilight series and while I like the story, the actual writing is nothing to brag about. But I do think it is a better vampire series than the also popular adult Anita Blake books which have basically turned into 400 pages of orgy.
javsmav javsmav 7 years
Mädchen, that's how I read it, too. Although to be honest I am too tired to read the whole bill. But it doesn't look like it's requiring sex ed to be taught to kindergartners. I do think sex ed should be the responsibility of the parents (although my parents mainly left it to the Christian school I went to...and they gave me a book. Basically the shame associated with sex and the fear of God's eternal wrath kept me a "good girl"--I don't recommend that method). Unfortunately, parents aren't doing their jobs and the kids are suffering for it.
Mädchen Mädchen 7 years
Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but I don't think that bill was actually meant to mandate that sex-ed has to be taught in kindergarten, it just talks about what "each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12" should entail, if such a class/course was being held. I also think it's important to note that this is also part of the proposed bill: "No pupil shall be required to take or participate in any class or course on HIV AIDS or family life instruction if his parent or guardian submits written objection thereto, and refusal to take or participate in the course or program shall not be reason for suspension or expulsion of the pupil."
Jude-C Jude-C 7 years
I am currently trying to convince the fiance to read the Harry Potter books (he has seen the movies and doesn't see the point of also reading the books). Tips?
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Exactly Jude! Whoops, AofD! :oops:
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