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Florida and Michigan Delegates

Democrats' Big Decision on Florida and Michigan Delegates

Democratic party officials reached a deal today to seat delegates from the disputed Florida and Michigan primaries with half a vote each. The decision happened behind closed doors and voted on publicly — announced to cheers and boos underscoring the impossibility of reaching a "correct" answer in the scenario.

In the decision Clinton (who won the Michigan and Florida contests) picked up 19 delegates in Florida and 5 delegates in Michigan, a net gain of 24 delegates over Obama.

Howard Dean, chairman of the DNC, opened the meeting today saying, “We are strong enough to struggle and disagree and to even be angry and disappointed and still come together at the end of the day and be united.”

Was this decision fair? Will the Democrats be able to come together now?

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stephley stephley 8 years
No, Kennedy does not have a reputation as a name-calling, physical hothead - he can yell about policy but isn't known for making it personal. The Washingtonian Magazine listed these three senators in 2006 based on votes from Capitol Hill: "Hottest Temper 1. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) 2. John McCain (R-Ariz.) 3. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) Stevens, known for wearing an Incredible Hulk tie to intimidate friend and foe, and McCain, known to snap at staff when the cameras are off, get bipartisan votes."
UnDave35 UnDave35 8 years
"Find another current senator with a handful of similar incidents - the only public person I can think of who comes close is Dick Cheney." Actually, Kennedy has that reputation as a hothead, but people like him, so that fact is overlooked.
flutterpie flutterpie 8 years
stephly-ha, your comment reminded me of that family guy when dick cheney used to work at walmart as a greeter. "Go fuck yourself" "Go fuck yourself" "Go fuck yourself" :ROTFL:
flutterpie flutterpie 8 years
just to be clear, im not pro dragging this thing out. i think that the dnc even meeting to discuss this is ridiculous. i think that hillary needs to take her licks and call it a day but it doesnt help the situation any to have obama getting delegates that he didnt earn either. to me that just adds insult to injury. i dont think hillary "broke" the rules, if she did there would of been consequences, she just chose not to follow them. you call it sneaky, i call it covering your ass, tomato, tomahto. The latest account we have of McCain having a temper was in 2007, so its not possible AT ALL that he's either gotten help with it or that maybe he just has a potty mouth? Didnt he actually hit someone a couple times? whats he going to do if he meets with opec and they decide not to give him what he wants? is there going to be a jerry spring type melee? there is a huge difference between "having a potty mouth" and consistently attacking someone you disagree with.
stephley stephley 8 years
Find another current senator with a handful of similar incidents - the only public person I can think of who comes close is Dick Cheney.
hausfrau hausfrau 8 years
McCain's temper is a pretty weak argument. We have a handful of incidents over the last 9 years, so now he has to be flying off the handle every single day? Please.
stephley stephley 8 years
Cab, nice try but no one simply stops having a temper like that and if McCain was in therapy, we'd know. And I think we could all point to people whose success in life is a total mystery to us.
hausfrau hausfrau 8 years
The latest account we have of McCain having a temper was in 2007, so its not possible AT ALL that he's either gotten help with it or that maybe he just has a potty mouth? Either way, I mean really, you think the guy made it this far by knee jerk reactions to everything? That would be pretty silly.
kastarte2 kastarte2 8 years
popgoestheworld. I agree about that popular vote. I find it to be an embarassing and pathetic argument for them to make. There is no merit in thier math at all. They simply developed a formula that would serve thier purpose. All this foolishness so they can make an irrelevant point about the popular vote when all that matters is the delegate count.
Jillness Jillness 8 years
"If you willingly break the rules, at least be adult enough to accept the consequences." I agree, Undave.
UnDave35 UnDave35 8 years
What gets me most about this whole mess is that these states could've at least petitioned the DNC to move their primaries up, but didn't even do that. These states willingly broke the rules, and then wanted the rules committee to give them a break. Does anyone else think that is an example of what is seriousily wrong with this country? If you willingly break the rules, at least be adult enough to accept the consequences.
Jillness Jillness 8 years
"its politics people, hillary played the game and obama didnt. the fact that she had the forethought to leave her name on there just means she covered her ass and the others didn't." You make a good point, but in my opinion, she violated a pledge to the very organization that she is now asking to bend the rules. How to phrase what I mean:? ...it is like NCA cheerleading championships. If you want to win the NCA title, you have to play by NCA rules. If you do a knee drop, that is illegal, and you can't win based on the rules of the organization that is having the contest. When you apply to a contest with certain rules, you have to play within those rules to win, naturally. 1. In the beginning Hillary said it is about "delegates, delegates, delegates", and now she is arguing for popular vote. 2. In October she said "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything" about Michigan, and now she is going against her word. 3. In April her husband said "Probably the only option now is to seat them under our rules at half delegates." 4. Ickes voted last year to strip the states of their delegates! Massive 180! 5. Terry McAuliffe threatened Michigan with the same thing in 2004 when they threatened to move their primary forward (he works on Clinton campaign). They know they violated the rules. For them to be acting as if they are shocked at the consequences in insincere, IMO. They weren't blind to the penalties of their actions.
UnDave35 UnDave35 8 years
I hate not having internet right now. (I have to run down the street and steal it from a willing neighbor.) I'm glad this has been resolved. Now maybe we can get on to the business of the general election. If Obama gets the democratic nomination, and then loses in the general, he can thank Hillary for that.
flutterpie flutterpie 8 years
im not a hillary supporter but i will say this, at this stage in the game, 4 delegates can decide the race. as far as why she is harping on this now and is that no one thought the race would go this long or get this far. its entirely possible that hillary and her rag tag gang of politicians didnt necessarily agree with the dnc's decision (maybe the reason why she left her name on the michigan ballot) but went along with it to "keep the peace" (go figure). the popular vote count is unjustifiable and represents her desperation at this point.
popgoestheworld popgoestheworld 8 years
From an AP article... "He, as well as Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson, said the former first lady had won more votes that Obama in the course of the primary campaign. Gibbs disputed that — and Clinton's claim includes estimates for caucuses in Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington state, where no official candidate popular vote is available. It also includes the results from Florida, where no campaigning occurred, as well as Michigan, where Obama did not receive any votes because his name was not on the ballot." -- How can anyone justify a popular vote count based on this, and say it has any meaning? How how how? The insanity of it actually scares me. Anyone have an answer?
popgoestheworld popgoestheworld 8 years
In any case, Hillary came out of this with many more delegates than Obama and right now she's angry about 4 from Michigan that she thinks should be hers. Someone else please help me with this, I really don't understand. What good will 4 delegates do her at this point?
popgoestheworld popgoestheworld 8 years
I tried posting this question on a less-friendly blog so let me try it here. If this was really an issue about counting every vote, why did Hillary agree early on not to count these votes? Very simple question, and I'd love a Hillary supporter or otherwise to give me their take on it. The reason I'm asking is because it seems so obvious that this is a last ditch effort to score some more delegates, and not because she really cares about the votes of the people. But others don't seem to think so. Yet, her actions early on seem to indicate that she was fine with it.
flutterpie flutterpie 8 years
its politics people, hillary played the game and obama didnt. the fact that she had the forethought to leave her name on there just means she covered her ass and the others didnt. the fact that the clintons have been campaigning in those states since 1992 speaks to their experience, i mean come on was hillary not supposed to do anything prior to this primary for the sakes fairness? personally, i dont think any of the votes should counted, i think that they made their bed and they should lie in it. the fact that the dnc reconsidered stripping florida and michigan of their votes, only opened the door for hillary. they gave her some ammo to stay in the fight and good bad or indifferent, its only natural that she will take it to the bitter end
Jillness Jillness 8 years
Here is a link to the Michigan speech in case anyone is interested. Did YOU know about the idea for a Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund? http://www.barackobama.com/2008/05/14/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_66.php
Jillness Jillness 8 years
I find it interesting that she is using the "count every vote" angle, and yet her popular vote numbers exclude Iowa, Nevada, Maine, and Washington (caucus states that don't report popular vote). Do the voters in these states not matter? Chuck Todd made a good point, if it was about popular vote, Obama would have been in San Francisco on the night before Super Tuesday, not Boise, Idaho. The campaign season would have played out much differently, and the strategies would have focused on big cities.
Jillness Jillness 8 years
I find it interesting that she is using the "count every vote" angle, and yet her popular vote numbers exclude Iowa, Nevada, Maine, and Washington (caucus states that don't report popular vote). Do the voters in these states not matter? Chuck Todd made a good point, if it was about popular vote, Obama would have been in San Francisco on the night before Super Tuesday, not Boise, Idaho. The campaign season would have played out much differently, and the strategies would have focused on big cities.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 8 years
Kasarte... thought I'd try something a little different. I'm sure Kate will return soon though. ;)
juju4 juju4 8 years
Jillness-- those are great points! My thoughts exactly. It isn't "Obama's bad" for taking his name off of the ballot in Michigan, because they were ALL supposed to do it, and she pledged that she would.
Jillness Jillness 8 years
"First of all no one campaigned in either of the states so the excuse that obama is mad because he didnt campaign in the states is bogus. second obama could of put his name on the michigan ballot and he chose not to, his bad. third, hillary lost four delegates so pissing and moaning about obama only getting half but vilifying hillary is ridiculous"1. This is inaccurate. The Clintons have been campaigning in these states since 1992. Secondly, you can't discount the influence that local campaigning has (compared to national coverage). For example, in Michigan on May 14th Obama gave a speech that gave quite a few details of his economic policy ideas. I did not see it on national news channels, I did not see it on even liberal sites like Huffington Post, ect. Thousands of people in Michigan, however, did see it (people at rallies, local news coverage, etc.). Local campaigning obviously has a lot of benefit, last week John McCain and Obama were in 3 different states in 3 days. In many states, like in Wisconsin, Obama started off behind Clinton in polls, and then after lots of local campaigning he gained in the polls to win the state. To suggest that the results of the Florida election were an accurate portrayal of the state's citizens is just not accurate. They had their election not even 2 months into the primary process, remember! If he had been able to make himself known to Floridians with rallies, town hall meetings, flyers, volunteers making calls, door to door campaigns...yes, it would have made a huge difference. Telling voters 6 months earlier that their vote wouldn't count also had an impact. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. 2. Actually, Hillary's bad. She pledged to the DNC, the same group that runs the whole delegate process, that she would take her name off the ballot just like Edwards, Biden, Obama, and Richardson did. All 4 of these people honored the agreement that they pledged to. Why should she be rewarded for violating her pledge? 40% of people still chose not to vote for her.3. Hillary is being vilified because she is trying to aggravate a situation instead of encouraging resolution. Even though they all voted unanimously to award Florida half delegates, all of her supporters voted unsuccessfully to award Florida full delegates. Being as this clearly goes against the rules that have been in place, it can be said that they are fighting to break the rules. That is the source of the vilifying here.
Jillness Jillness 8 years
"First of all no one campaigned in either of the states so the excuse that obama is mad because he didnt campaign in the states is bogus. second obama could of put his name on the michigan ballot and he chose not to, his bad. third, hillary lost four delegates so pissing and moaning about obama only getting half but vilifying hillary is ridiculous" 1. This is inaccurate. The Clintons have been campaigning in these states since 1992. Secondly, you can't discount the influence that local campaigning has (compared to national coverage). For example, in Michigan on May 14th Obama gave a speech that gave quite a few details of his economic policy ideas. I did not see it on national news channels, I did not see it on even liberal sites like Huffington Post, ect. Thousands of people in Michigan, however, did see it (people at rallies, local news coverage, etc.). Local campaigning obviously has a lot of benefit, last week John McCain and Obama were in 3 different states in 3 days. In many states, like in Wisconsin, Obama started off behind Clinton in polls, and then after lots of local campaigning he gained in the polls to win the state. To suggest that the results of the Florida election were an accurate portrayal of the state's citizens is just not accurate. They had their election not even 2 months into the primary process, remember! If he had been able to make himself known to Floridians with rallies, town hall meetings, flyers, volunteers making calls, door to door campaigns...yes, it would have made a huge difference. Telling voters 6 months earlier that their vote wouldn't count also had an impact. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. 2. Actually, Hillary's bad. She pledged to the DNC, the same group that runs the whole delegate process, that she would take her name off the ballot just like Edwards, Biden, Obama, and Richardson did. All 4 of these people honored the agreement that they pledged to. Why should she be rewarded for violating her pledge? 40% of people still chose not to vote for her. 3. Hillary is being vilified because she is trying to aggravate a situation instead of encouraging resolution. Even though they all voted unanimously to award Florida half delegates, all of her supporters voted unsuccessfully to award Florida full delegates. Being as this clearly goes against the rules that have been in place, it can be said that they are fighting to break the rules. That is the source of the vilifying here.
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