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Front Page: Iraqis Demand Release of Bush Shoe Attacker

  • Growing calls to release the journalist who threw his shoes at George W. Bush confront the Iraqi government, as the Arab world has hailed the action of dissent as the perfect parting gift for the American President. Iraqis took to the streets today to rally support for the TV journalist. — AFP
  • Illinois lawmakers are meeting today to discuss impeaching Gov. Blagojevich, after he returned to work today. — AP
  • Anxiety caused by the revelation that investor Bernard Madoff pulled off a $50 billion fraud hit European and US markets today. Huge banking institutions and hedge funds reported major potential loses related to the scheme. — AP
  • Thanks to a recent legal settlement, tens of thousands of immigrants who entered the US on a valid visa, but fell out of legal status between 1982 and 1988, will be able to apply for amnesty. — LA Times

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krae85 krae85 7 years
Goodness people. All I said was that I was tired of these circular debates with you. I didn't say you couldn't have your own opinion but it's annoying to have my point of view picked apart because you believe differently. I said I wasn't interested in responses to my comment not that you couldn't comment at all. Comment all you want! Debate with each other all you want, but I'm saying this is my comment, I've heard your explanations before and I don't agree with them, so why waste everyone's time arguing back and forth over something we'll never agree on.
zeze zeze 7 years
Krae-you are not even making sense anymore. First you rant about how ungrateful Iraqis are for the invasion and then you tell me how grateful they are...and then tell me to believe the garbage I want to believe....My point was frustrations are justified as this point, the was was mishandled and we have let them down in more ways then I can count. Bush has even admitted to many mistakes in approach, Rice has talked about mismanagement, and I referenced the Iraq-Kuwait war to remind you of Bush Sr. encouraging Iraqis to rise up against Saddam via CIA radio and dropping leaflets in towns from the US army saying revolt and positioning themselves in Basra and then watching as Saddam took out entire cities for the rebellion because the US changed its mind about going into Iraq...I mentioned this to remind you that Iraqi people have a lot to be angry at at for, they didn't have to trust us this time, we would never trust anyone who did half as much to us. They did, the cheered and welcomed and voted, and worked with us as translators and as information seekers and we have done nothing but mismanage this entire thing. The shoe-thrower may be wrong in what his actions were, but the sentiments are right and 100% justified. They have a right to be angry because if we would have controlled borders better, if we would have not dispersed the army and let them turn to terrorism as the only way to make money, if we would have worried more about people and infrastructure there would not be millions dead now as a result of our mismanagement.As for your example of soldiers being thanked, unlike many of us here, they see a difference between government policies and heads and soldiers and people. They know the soldiers do what they are told and dont make the rules. The are angry as the man they trusted when he came in claiming to liberate them, not the soldiers who protect them.
zeze zeze 7 years
Krae- you are not even making sense anymore. First you rant about how ungrateful Iraqis are for the invasion and then you tell me how grateful they are...and then tell me to believe the garbage I want to believe.... My point was frustrations are justified as this point, the was was mishandled and we have let them down in more ways then I can count. Bush has even admitted to many mistakes in approach, Rice has talked about mismanagement, and I referenced the Iraq-Kuwait war to remind you of Bush Sr. encouraging Iraqis to rise up against Saddam via CIA radio and dropping leaflets in towns from the US army saying revolt and positioning themselves in Basra and then watching as Saddam took out entire cities for the rebellion because the US changed its mind about going into Iraq...I mentioned this to remind you that Iraqi people have a lot to be angry at at for, they didn't have to trust us this time, we would never trust anyone who did half as much to us. They did, the cheered and welcomed and voted, and worked with us as translators and as information seekers and we have done nothing but mismanage this entire thing. The shoe-thrower may be wrong in what his actions were, but the sentiments are right and 100% justified. They have a right to be angry because if we would have controlled borders better, if we would have not dispersed the army and let them turn to terrorism as the only way to make money, if we would have worried more about people and infrastructure there would not be millions dead now as a result of our mismanagement. As for your example of soldiers being thanked, unlike many of us here, they see a difference between government policies and heads and soldiers and people. They know the soldiers do what they are told and dont make the rules. The are angry as the man they trusted when he came in claiming to liberate them, not the soldiers who protect them.
True-Song True-Song 7 years
>You can't say you love something but in the next breath prattle off all the things that are wrong with it and want to change everything. I disagree. I love the U.S.. I love free speech, free public education, the nation parks system, the three-branch system of checks and balances, American Idol, the wide availability of good Mexican food, but I wish we had less poverty, stricter gun control, a ban on capital punishment, and less obsession with professional sports. A country doesn't have to be perfect for you to love it. To quote 30 Rock, "I love America. Just because I think gay dudes should be allowed to adopt kids and we should all have hybrid cars doesn't mean I don't love America."
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
I guess it was between you two...I just wasn't sure if you were actually saying that you thought Bush wanted to make the U.S. look bad or if you were just using it as an example.
stephley stephley 7 years
Agreed Bluesarah - I guess it again supports True's call for nested (right word?) threads, so if you don't want to see anything you disagree with, you don't have to.
stephley stephley 7 years
So your confusion was about that exchange between Haus and me?
bluesarahlou bluesarahlou 7 years
The problem I've seen is that lately people get offended if you want to discuss or voice your opposition of the post.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
Thanks! I genuinely was confused.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
Of course we can discuss comments. That is part of the point of comments. I just think it's odd to go out of one's way to point out that another's user's comment is his or her point of view. Like I said, I think it's kind of obvious. disagreeing with/discussing that point of view is one thing, but pointing out that it's just a point of view seems obvious, in my opinion.
stephley stephley 7 years
Sorry missed # 55: just an example.
stephley stephley 7 years
Hmmm. On the one hand, it's true that this is all pov; we can simply each comment and move on, or discuss comments - possibly learn something from each other, possibly understand our own positions better, possibly be convinced we should change. I've learned plenty from other people here.Maybe there should be an icon that represents what someone said yesterday, which was essentially, 'this is what I think, I'm not interested in your responses.'
stephley stephley 7 years
Hmmm. On the one hand, it's true that this is all pov; we can simply each comment and move on, or discuss comments - possibly learn something from each other, possibly understand our own positions better, possibly be convinced we should change. I've learned plenty from other people here. Maybe there should be an icon that represents what someone said yesterday, which was essentially, 'this is what I think, I'm not interested in your responses.'
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
Although, I am still a bit confused...are you saying that you actually believe people like George Bush make the U.S. look bad or are you just using that as an example? I'm just asking because earlier you said you don't know of anyone who enjoys making the U.S. look bad, so I am just not sure.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
But I obviously see it different than others.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
I guess I just think it's obvious that when someone says something that's can be proven neither true nor false, it's that person's point of view. I don't understand the point in telling the person that it's his or her point of view.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
Who's saying that others have been stopped from commenting? Now I'm even more confused than before...
stephley stephley 7 years
Who's been stopped from commenting? People do tend to respond to each other, pro and con, and I've seen intense responses from both sides. One of the first times I commented on Citizen, Haus and Cine came back so personally and fiercely that I welled-up. Obviously, I got over it.
stephley stephley 7 years
Who's been stopped from commenting? People do tend to respond to each other, pro and con, and I've seen intense responses from both sides. One of the first times I commented on Citizen, Haus and Cine came back so personally and fiercely that I welled-up. Obviously, I got over it.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 7 years
I thought a big part of having comments was so that people could express their point of view. I guess I am confused.
stephley stephley 7 years
No matter what YOU think of them Haus, it is only your POV that says those groups "enjoy making the U.S. look bad". I could say that people like George Bush enjoy making the U.S. look bad because from my point of view, that's the only explanation for the stupid, hateful sh*t he has done in our names around the world. Snowbunny, you're fabulous.
stephley stephley 7 years
No matter what YOU think of them Haus, it is only your POV that says those groups "enjoy making the U.S. look bad". I could say that people like George Bush enjoy making the U.S. look bad because from my point of view, that's the only explanation for the stupid, hateful sh*t he has done in our names around the world. Snowbunny, you're fabulous.
snowbunny11 snowbunny11 7 years
Wait...am I missing something with the whole "Iraqi people should be more grateful" thing? I didn't realize Iraq asked the US to invade, and by any factual accounts we have left the country in a worse condition than it was in when we got there. Also, for all you hawks out there, we should have sent in MORE troops when we decided to invade if we had wanted to do it effectively. Krae- yet when they poll the Iraqis, this is a summary of the results:"The U.S. has long maintained its involvement there is with the support of the Iraqi people, but in 2005 when asked directly, 82–87% of the Iraqi populace was opposed to U.S. occupation and wanted U.S. troops to leave. 47% of Iraqis supported attacking U.S. troops.[360] Another poll conducted on September 27, 2006, found that seven out of ten Iraqis want U.S.-led forces to withdraw from Iraq within one year. Overall, 78% of those polled said they believed that the presence of U.S. forces is "provoking more conflict than it's preventing." 53% of those polled believed the Iraqi government would be strengthened if U.S. forces left Iraq (versus 23% who believed it would be weakened), and 71% wanted this to happen in 1 year or less. All of these positions were more prevalent amongst Sunni and Shia respondents than among Kurds. 61% of respondents said that they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, while 94% still had an unfavorable opinion of al-Qaeda.[361]A March 7, 2007 survey of more than 2,000 Iraqis found that 78% of the population opposed the presence of Coalition forces in Iraq, that 69% believed the presence of U.S. forces is making things worse, and that 51% of the population considered attacks on coalition forces acceptable, up from 17% in 2004 and 35% in 2006. In addition:[362] * 64% described their family's economic situation as being somewhat or very bad, up from 30% in 2005. * 88% described the availability of electricity as being either somewhat or very bad, up from 65% in 2004. * 69% described the availability of clean water as somewhat or very bad, up from 48% in 2004. * 88% described the availability of fuel for cooking and driving as being somewhat or very bad. * 58% described reconstruction efforts in the area in which they live as either somewhat or very ineffective, and 9% described them as being totally nonexistent."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_warAnd yes, it's from wikipedia, but when you go to the page, you can click on the original source of the information. I don't think many people use wikipedia, because I have to explain this every time I post something from there!It just absolutely blows my mind that any American can still pretend that our presence in Iraq was justified and helpful. There are 4.6 million Iraqi refugees created from the war, many are now without electricity or running water, the whole situation is a mess.
snowbunny11 snowbunny11 7 years
Wait...am I missing something with the whole "Iraqi people should be more grateful" thing? I didn't realize Iraq asked the US to invade, and by any factual accounts we have left the country in a worse condition than it was in when we got there. Also, for all you hawks out there, we should have sent in MORE troops when we decided to invade if we had wanted to do it effectively. Krae- yet when they poll the Iraqis, this is a summary of the results: "The U.S. has long maintained its involvement there is with the support of the Iraqi people, but in 2005 when asked directly, 82–87% of the Iraqi populace was opposed to U.S. occupation and wanted U.S. troops to leave. 47% of Iraqis supported attacking U.S. troops.[360] Another poll conducted on September 27, 2006, found that seven out of ten Iraqis want U.S.-led forces to withdraw from Iraq within one year. Overall, 78% of those polled said they believed that the presence of U.S. forces is "provoking more conflict than it's preventing." 53% of those polled believed the Iraqi government would be strengthened if U.S. forces left Iraq (versus 23% who believed it would be weakened), and 71% wanted this to happen in 1 year or less. All of these positions were more prevalent amongst Sunni and Shia respondents than among Kurds. 61% of respondents said that they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, while 94% still had an unfavorable opinion of al-Qaeda.[361] A March 7, 2007 survey of more than 2,000 Iraqis found that 78% of the population opposed the presence of Coalition forces in Iraq, that 69% believed the presence of U.S. forces is making things worse, and that 51% of the population considered attacks on coalition forces acceptable, up from 17% in 2004 and 35% in 2006. In addition:[362] * 64% described their family's economic situation as being somewhat or very bad, up from 30% in 2005. * 88% described the availability of electricity as being either somewhat or very bad, up from 65% in 2004. * 69% described the availability of clean water as somewhat or very bad, up from 48% in 2004. * 88% described the availability of fuel for cooking and driving as being somewhat or very bad. * 58% described reconstruction efforts in the area in which they live as either somewhat or very ineffective, and 9% described them as being totally nonexistent." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war And yes, it's from wikipedia, but when you go to the page, you can click on the original source of the information. I don't think many people use wikipedia, because I have to explain this every time I post something from there! It just absolutely blows my mind that any American can still pretend that our presence in Iraq was justified and helpful. There are 4.6 million Iraqi refugees created from the war, many are now without electricity or running water, the whole situation is a mess.
krae85 krae85 7 years
zeze, I've worked in journalism for the past five years and interviewed many many many military men and women and ALL of them say the Iraqi people are grateful and appreciative of what we've done for them. They have pictures of smiling Iraqis, waving American flags. You can believe whatever garbage you want to, but we have helped them immensely and some of them are smart enough to appreciate it, unlike these shoe-lovers.
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