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Kucinich Gives Impeachment Another Try

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Kucinich Gives Impeachment Another Try
Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who introduced 35 articles of impeachment last month is trying again on the grounds of "Deceiving Congress with Fabricated Threats of Iraq WMDs to Fraudulently Obtain Support for an Authorization of the Use of Military Force Against Iraq." Kucinich presented his case on the terrace of the Cannon building. He said he plans to make his formal presentation to the House at 4:00 p.m., with the hopes of the bill being referred to the Judiciary committee, which would this time let him present his case there.

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lilkimbo lilkimbo 8 years
Yeah, I already read and responded to it.
stephley stephley 8 years
I posted a response on the other post.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 8 years
I posted this on another thread, but now you won't have to go looking: Stephley, did the study show any intentionally false statements? Is there a way to prove those statements were not simply the result of faulty intelligence? And one memo from Great Britain is not proof.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 8 years
I posted this on another thread, but now you won't have to go looking:Stephley, did the study show any <b>intentionally</b> false statements? Is there a way to prove those statements were not simply the result of faulty intelligence?And one memo from Great Britain is not proof.
bellaressa bellaressa 8 years
Don't apologize - I like your research and POV.
stephley stephley 8 years
Sorry to be so windy, but it really really bothers me. :nerdgirl:
bellaressa bellaressa 8 years
Stephley - you been keeping a personal file ---all research provided by Stephley Starr.
bellaressa bellaressa 8 years
Stephley - you been keeping a personal file ---all research provided by Stephley Starr.
stephley stephley 8 years
Former Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman offered a little more guidance recently - again, it's enough to help an investigation get moving:"The next step is to start asking, what did the president actually know and when did he know it? Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill has stated that President Bush seemed determined to overthrow Saddam Hussein at the beginning of his administration, well before 9/11. There was also the British “Downing Street” memo written in the summer of 2002 stating that President Bush was going to “fix” the intelligence to fit the policy of overthrow."
stephley stephley 8 years
Former Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman offered a little more guidance recently - again, it's enough to help an investigation get moving: "The next step is to start asking, what did the president actually know and when did he know it? Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill has stated that President Bush seemed determined to overthrow Saddam Hussein at the beginning of his administration, well before 9/11. There was also the British “Downing Street” memo written in the summer of 2002 stating that President Bush was going to “fix” the intelligence to fit the policy of overthrow."
stephley stephley 8 years
"I should add, if anyone has evidence that Bush *intentionally* lied, I'd love to hear it." Here you go: studies by journalism groups, a Senate panel and reports from several allied leaders. There's no investigation by a Ken Starr like figure of course, because people seem afraid of that. Study: False statements preceded war Hundreds of false statements on WMDs, al-Qaida used to justify Iraq warThe Associated Pressupdated 11:30 p.m. PT, Tues., Jan. 22, 2008WASHINGTON - A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat."The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said.WMD, al-Qaida links debunkedThe study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al-Qaida or both."It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al-Qaida.Media 'validation' The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews."The cumulative effect of these false statements — amplified by thousands of news stories and broadcasts — was massive, with the media coverage creating an almost impenetrable din for several critical months in the run-up to war," the study concluded."Some journalists — indeed, even some entire news organizations — have since acknowledged that their coverage during those prewar months was far too deferential and uncritical. These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush administration's false statements about Iraq," it said.Senate panel: Bush administration misled America on Iraq By Jonathan S. Landay, McClatchy Newspapers Thu Jun 5, 8:16 PM ET WASHINGTON — President Bush , Vice President Dick Cheney and other top officials promoted the invasion of Iraq with public statements that weren't supported by intelligence or that concealed differences among intelligence agencies, the Senate Intelligence Committee said on Thursday in a report that was delayed by bitter partisan infighting. A second report found that a special office set up under then-secretary of defense Donald H. Rumsfeld conducted "sensitive intelligence activities" that were inappropriate "without the knowledge of the Intelligence Community or the State Department ." That report revealed that Pentagon counterintelligence officials suspected that Iran might have tried to use the group to influence administration policymakers.Committee chairman John D. Rockefeller , D-W. Va., said the administration's actions went far beyond simply being misled by bad intelligence."There is no question we all relied on flawed intelligence," Rockefeller said in a statement. "But, there is a fundamental difference between relying on incorrect intelligence and deliberately painting a picture to the American people that you know is not fully accurate."Polish president says he was 'misled' on Iraq armsOriginally published 11:21 p.m., March 18, 2004, updated 12:00 a.m., March 19, 2004 WASHINGTON TIMES Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski, a key backer of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, said yesterday his country was "misled" by Bush administration claims about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but insisted the world was still better off with the ouster of Saddam Hussein. Mr. Kwasniewski was the second leader of a close European ally in less than a week to question prewar estimates of Saddam's chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. Spanish Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero on Monday accused President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair of waging the war on the basis of "lies" about Iraq's weapons programs...The Polish president told a group of French journalists yesterday, "I personally think that today, Iraq without Saddam Hussein is a truly better Iraq than Iraq with Saddam Hussein." "But," he added, "naturally I also feel uncomfortable due to the fact that we were misled with the information on weapons of mass destruction," according to a transcript supplied by the president's office. "WE WERE TAKEN FOR A RIDE."
stephley stephley 8 years
"I should add, if anyone has evidence that Bush *intentionally* lied, I'd love to hear it." Here you go: studies by journalism groups, a Senate panel and reports from several allied leaders. There's no investigation by a Ken Starr like figure of course, because people seem afraid of that. Study: False statements preceded war Hundreds of false statements on WMDs, al-Qaida used to justify Iraq war The Associated Press updated 11:30 p.m. PT, Tues., Jan. 22, 2008 WASHINGTON - A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks. The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses." The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism. White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat. "The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said. WMD, al-Qaida links debunked The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al-Qaida or both. "It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003." Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan. Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al-Qaida. Media 'validation' The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews. "The cumulative effect of these false statements — amplified by thousands of news stories and broadcasts — was massive, with the media coverage creating an almost impenetrable din for several critical months in the run-up to war," the study concluded. "Some journalists — indeed, even some entire news organizations — have since acknowledged that their coverage during those prewar months was far too deferential and uncritical. These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush administration's false statements about Iraq," it said. Senate panel: Bush administration misled America on Iraq By Jonathan S. Landay, McClatchy Newspapers Thu Jun 5, 8:16 PM ET WASHINGTON — President Bush , Vice President Dick Cheney and other top officials promoted the invasion of Iraq with public statements that weren't supported by intelligence or that concealed differences among intelligence agencies, the Senate Intelligence Committee said on Thursday in a report that was delayed by bitter partisan infighting. A second report found that a special office set up under then-secretary of defense Donald H. Rumsfeld conducted "sensitive intelligence activities" that were inappropriate "without the knowledge of the Intelligence Community or the State Department ." That report revealed that Pentagon counterintelligence officials suspected that Iran might have tried to use the group to influence administration policymakers. Committee chairman John D. Rockefeller , D-W. Va., said the administration's actions went far beyond simply being misled by bad intelligence. "There is no question we all relied on flawed intelligence," Rockefeller said in a statement. "But, there is a fundamental difference between relying on incorrect intelligence and deliberately painting a picture to the American people that you know is not fully accurate." Polish president says he was 'misled' on Iraq arms Originally published 11:21 p.m., March 18, 2004, updated 12:00 a.m., March 19, 2004 WASHINGTON TIMES Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski, a key backer of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, said yesterday his country was "misled" by Bush administration claims about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but insisted the world was still better off with the ouster of Saddam Hussein. Mr. Kwasniewski was the second leader of a close European ally in less than a week to question prewar estimates of Saddam's chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. Spanish Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero on Monday accused President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair of waging the war on the basis of "lies" about Iraq's weapons programs... The Polish president told a group of French journalists yesterday, "I personally think that today, Iraq without Saddam Hussein is a truly better Iraq than Iraq with Saddam Hussein." "But," he added, "naturally I also feel uncomfortable due to the fact that we were misled with the information on weapons of mass destruction," according to a transcript supplied by the president's office. "WE WERE TAKEN FOR A RIDE."
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
Dang, sorry, missed that end tag! I should add, if anyone has evidence that Bush *intentionally* lied, I'd love to hear it. I'm not a kool-aid drinker, and have my reservations and suspicions about both (actually, all) political parties. Flawed intelligence, <i>supported by that of other nations,</i> is not an intentional fabrication.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
Dang, sorry, missed that end tag! I should add, if anyone has evidence that Bush *intentionally* lied, I'd love to hear it. I'm not a kool-aid drinker, and have my reservations and suspicions about both (actually, all) political parties. Flawed intelligence, supported by that of other nations, is not an intentional fabrication.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
For 8 years I've heard people keep saying the Clinton impeachment was about sex. Six is not a crime; <b>perjury</i> is. Can we please declare an expiration date on this argument, it's getting pretty stale. Expecting "services above and beyond" is called sexual harassment. Mr. Bill has a long documented history of said behavior. If the chairman of a corporation pressured his office staff--a young intern, at that--to accommodate him, I'm sure we would all agree that's just cause for termination.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
For 8 years I've heard people keep saying the Clinton impeachment was about sex. Six is not a crime; perjury is. Can we please declare an expiration date on this argument, it's getting pretty stale. Expecting "services above and beyond" is called sexual harassment. Mr. Bill has a long documented history of said behavior. If the chairman of a corporation pressured his office staff--a young intern, at that--to accommodate him, I'm sure we would all agree that's just cause for termination.
stephley stephley 8 years
Again, when it's about sex, people insist on absolute truth and exceptional behavior. When its about war and torture, people aren't so anxious to know whether the president is lying or has lied. There's serious hypocrisy at work.
UnDave35 UnDave35 8 years
As Lain said, those articles are a while lot of mudslinging to see what will stick. I don't necessarily agree with impeaching someone for having sex with another consenting adult. However, she wasn't just a consenting adult, she was a subordinate to the President. There was a perceived abuse of power in that relationship. In any other business, having a relationship with someone you are in charge of is grounds for immediate firing. I've seen it happen to two people who eventually married. Furthermore, when the President was asked about it, he lied multiple times, in spite of witnesses statements.
MSucre MSucre 8 years
UnDave, you think it's a stretch to consider impeaching Bush for all of the above mentioned articles? What do you think about impeachment for lying about one's sex life? Honestly, I'd like to know your opinion.
stephley stephley 8 years
I think Congressional Democrats have pretty much proved they're an amazing bunch of political cowards. Like I said, Feinstein emailed me that she felt it would further divide the country - forget whether its warranted or not.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
This really strikes me as kind of a laundry list, "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach. IMO at least a couple of these are unprovable, because they're subjective assessments. A couple of these, like planning for the aftermath of natural disasters (Katrina) are not primarily the responsibility of the Federal government. If anyone is to be impeached on that basis, it should be the mayor and governor in office at that time. And at least one or two are on the order of "WTF"? Since when is a difference of opinion on global climate change an impeachable offense? (Article XXXII) Really, I think if there was anything of significant substance here, Congressional Democrats would be rallying around this. While he's spending time tilting at windmills, which of his *real* duties is Kucinich neglecting?
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
This really strikes me as kind of a laundry list, "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach. IMO at least a couple of these are unprovable, because they're subjective assessments. A couple of these, like planning for the aftermath of natural disasters (Katrina) are not primarily the responsibility of the Federal government. If anyone is to be impeached on that basis, it should be the mayor and governor in office at that time. And at least one or two are on the order of "WTF"? Since when is a difference of opinion on global climate change an impeachable offense? (Article XXXII) Really, I think if there was anything of significant substance here, Congressional Democrats would be rallying around this. While he's spending time tilting at windmills, which of his *real* duties is Kucinich neglecting?
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
In case anyone is interested, here's the actual text of the articles, (dated June 9). http://chun.afterdowningstreet.org.nyud.net:8080/amomentoftruth.pdf I haven't yet read them, but I just thought it was worth actually looking at the specifics, rather than just debating the general concept. Here's the index: Article I Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq. Article II Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of Aggression. Article III Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War. Article IV Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States. Article V Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression. Article VI Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of HJRes114. Article VII Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War. Article VIII Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter. Article IX Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor Article X Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes Article XI Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq Article XII Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation's Natural Resources Article XIIII Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other Countries Article XIV Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency Article XV Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq Article XVI Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors Article XVII Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives Article XVIII Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy Article XIX Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to "Black Sites" Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture Article XX Imprisoning Children Article XXI Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government Article XXII Creating Secret Laws Article XXIII Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act Article XXIV Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment Article XXV Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens Article XXVI Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements Article XXVII Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply Article XXVIII Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice Article XXIX Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965 Article XXX Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare Article XXXI Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil Emergency Article XXXII Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change Article XXXIII Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist Attacks in the US, Prior to 911. Article XXXIV Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001 Article XXXV Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders
stephley stephley 8 years
I disagree strongly with lying to send American forces into harms way and to kill other people. Does moral outrage about blow job lies run deeper?
stephley stephley 8 years
I disagree strongly with lying to send American forces into harms way and to kill other people. Does moral outrage about blow job lies run deeper?
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