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Obama Will Delay Repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Obama Will Delay Repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

This week word broke that the president-elect will not move for months, and perhaps not until 2010 to ask Congress to end the military's longstanding ban on open homosexuals in the service.

Throughout his campaign Barack Obama said he would repeal the ban on open gays in the military, but when selecting his joint chiefs of staff, he wouldn't require that they share his position on the policy. In a September interview, Obama said he wouldn't try to repeal the 1993 policy regarding gay service members on his own and that he hoped to ensure that when "we revert 'don't ask, don't tell,' it's gone through a process and we've built a consensus."

Advisers are now saying Obama wants to work with the joint chiefs of staff and his new political appointees at the Pentagon to reach a consensus and then present legislation to Congress.

"Don't ask, don't tell" prohibits gay military personnel from disclosing their sexual orientation because anyone that "demonstrates a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts would create an unacceptable risk to standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion."

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UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
I don't know. IMO, DADT should be more broadly applied. Don't tell me about your conquests (with whomever), and I won't tell you about mine. Let's keep sex completely out of the military. I understand that you have young men who have a lot of testosterone, but they are also supposedly professionals, and volunteers.
dingoatemybaby dingoatemybaby 7 years
It appears to me that what you would have to fight the most is the "the military just hates fags" attitude. Completely understand that you can't just flick a switch and have it be changed. And there are those gay folk that are going to push the boundaries if the policy is just unilaterally repealled. Some careful planning and training for both gay and straight service members will be needed. The services are disciplined organizations, and all who join are not necessarily realistic about their ability to follow the disciplines. As a gay man, I think the policy should be repealed, but you have to have a plan of action. It disturbs me that it has taken this long to recognize the need for it, and I worry that the "PLanning Process" will be neverending, but if they can come up with something that is fair to both gay and straight people (without bowing to stupid predjudices and block headed fears about gays) than all teh better.
lula29 lula29 7 years
Thanks for the insight Foxie!!
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
"does this mean if you want to dodge a draft you can just pretend to be gay?" It's pretty hard to dodge a draft when there isn't one. :oy:
foxie foxie 7 years
2010 is PLENTY of time to at least have a solid plan prepared and perhaps begin setting things in motion. I'm really excited to hear the solutions they propose, I just hope they don't decide to get rid of the phase system. The phase system was a pain in the ass to deal with, but in hind sight it was truly for the best.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 7 years
You have a point there with the building installation thing. ;) LOL You know I honestly can't say how long it would or should take. I get what you're saying about getting everyone home first. I do think that they should START now with preparing for a repeal though.
hausfrau hausfrau 7 years
Plus 8 years would allow people plenty of time to get used to the idea because no matter what they say there are plenty of homophobes in the service. I'd rather give these people ample time to get out and therfore minimize incidents.
hausfrau hausfrau 7 years
I think its worth repealling too HF. What gets me is the people who think its like switching off the kicthen light. Its NOT that easy. I think we disagree about 2010, I think it will take way longer than that just because of how long it will take to divert the funds to build the buildings. I mean think about when the last time whatever installation you were last on got a new building and how long it took to get, just using you as an example not point a finger! :) And I think everyone has to be home before we can even look at the funds for that, so that will be 2010 at least... I'd guess that if they started working today, right now, it would take at least 8 years.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 7 years
Also I will be speaking from a Navy enlisted point of view. Each service has differences in policy and regulations.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 7 years
By the way if anyone has any questions about military life you are free to ask me. I know that it can be confusing to civilians sometimes. :)
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 7 years
I think the difference is that I still think it's worth repealing. I know that it will take money, time, and resources...but it's still worth it. The military IS an old boy's club. Women have had a hard time (still do to an extent)and before that African American men did, and now gays will, but that doesn't mean that progress can't be made. It just means that careful consideration and planning needs to occur in order to move forward. Obama wanting to move forward WITH the military is a good move instead of just decreeing it so. I do think that 2010 is a realistic goal for repealing DADT.
snowbunny11 snowbunny11 7 years
Haus- I can read the language of DADT, and I do know a bit about the military lifestyle despite not having joined, enough that I can have an opinion on it. I may not have been in the military, but it is a potential career, and I have taken the ASVAB and sat down with officers to speak about joining. As an American taxpayer, I have many opinions on things I don't directly participate in, and one of the many reasons I decided to go to law school instead of joining the military is because I am uncomfortable with DADT, and it made me reconsider whether it's an atmosphere I'd be comfortable in. I certainly respect the opinions of people who have been in the military, but my bf's brother, who is pretty high up in the military actually said to me, "we just don't like f*gs in the military." I know Foxie and HF are NOT like that, and are looking at this from the perspective of how difficult it would be to change the policy, but some people do have that attitude there. Or at least one person does. Foxie- We clearly don't disagree. I never said that this wouldn't take careful planning, money and reconfiguring barracks. I never said, "just repeal DADT and everything will take care of itself." I just think that there has been a lot of excuse making, and many of these arguments apply to women in the Army also, ("they're a distraction, they disrupt the cohesiveness of the unit"). Sure, it takes time and money, and planning, but that shouldn't But I will agree that former college coeds probably have a really difficult time understanding the military's hangup on sex. It seems a little old fashioned and archaic to ban conjugal visits during training and prosecute adultery, and I also think it's really scary to hear all that statistics of how often women are sexually assaulted in the military. It's a bit of an old boy's club, but I'm sure it will change with time. :)
foxie foxie 7 years
"So if anything, repealing DADT would allow the military to punish everyone breaking the fraternization rules." SIGH. Only if they're able to figure out how to reconfigure training at large, which I think will be a huge challenge. And yes, people have been kicked out of the military for being gay, never said it hasn't happened. It just doesn't happen very often. I can't think of anyone being kicked out for being gay, but I've heard accounts of gay members I know being discovered and basically being nudged, winked at, and sent along their way. I repeat, I'm not saying things are fair for everyone the way they are right now either. That doesn't change the fact that repealing DADT and then calling it a day is NOT the way to go. It will require careful planning, a lot of time, and a considerable amount of money to make things truly fair. Thanks haus. I know I always thought DADT was bullcrap and unfair and should be done away with when I was a civilian, too. I never truly understood how complex an issue it is until I lived the military life. It's just one of those things that the media should portray fairly, then there would be less confusion and misunderstanding.
hausfrau hausfrau 7 years
This has been hashed and re-hashed a thousand times here. Foxie is in the military, HF has been in the military, why exactly can't we just accept that they know more than those who HAVEN'T been in the military? Foxie and HF tend to disagree on most things, yet they are agreeing on this. Doesn't that tell us something? Theres a lot of BS in the military, there's a TON of red tape and no matter how much we all like to think we know everything about it or how much we all like to think that its no different from civilian life, it IS different, A LOT different. So its not an apples to apples comparison and there ARE bigger things at play that the majority of Americans and esp. foreigners have NO IDEA about.
snowbunny11 snowbunny11 7 years
Foxie- my point is that these lesbians are breaking your rules of fraternization, and that really seems to have nothing to do with DADT. DADT clearly isn't keeping gay people out of the military, so it seems like what it is doing is making the military pretend there aren't gay people, therefore it must be hard for them to punish the lesbians you know for fraternizing, since technically there aren't even supposed to be lesbians in the military in the first place. And yes, people HAVE been kicked out of the military for being openly gay. So if anything, repealing DADT would allow the military to punish everyone breaking the fraternization rules.
kristints kristints 7 years
I think it's a good idea for Barack to take this slowly in order to gain a consensus, I personally wouldn't want to be in any job where I couldn't be out (and accepted), but I still think that if any other gay people want to be in the service, they should be able to.
hithatsmybike hithatsmybike 7 years
ok ok ok wait, what about bisexuals? where do we put the bisexuals?? They can't be with the men, the women or each other! and karlotta, morale was used correctly.. it doest mean "cheerfulness" in this context. It's difficult to explain because the notion that homosexuality is a risk to army morale is complete BS, but this itself is not an uncommon standpoint of conservative organizations/groups.
karlotta karlotta 7 years
Sorry, just a foreigner here, but ... morale/morals? who knows, maybe you did mean that "a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts would create an unacceptable risk to standards of cheerfulness/well-being", but somehow, I think you meant "principles" or "rules of conduct".
Jude-C Jude-C 7 years
I absolutely support the repeal of DADT, but I am also very glad that Obama is choosing to work with the Pentagon, Congress, and etc. to make it happen, instead of attempting to repeal it unilaterally. In the end, I think doing it that way will be the best method of making sure it sticks with the least amount of resentment.
foxie foxie 7 years
By the way, I'm trying my best to explain the military training system in a clear way, but I know it's hard to describe to someone who hasn't experienced it. Maybe HF will come back to the thread and do a better job explaining it than I'm doing. All I'm saying is that the media never explains DADT policy in a way that is fair or completely truthful, and the military is NOT as anti-gay as most people assume it to be. And it's not like I'm the enemy and I'm arguing to keep DADT around forever, I'm NOT. I just know that a lot of people can't fully understand how difficult a process it will be because a lot of people have no idea how the military works.
foxie foxie 7 years
You're not familiar with how training in the military works, so it's more than a little presumptuous of you to say that DADT is not the reason they basically lived with each other. It, along with the fact that evidently they were comfortable breaking the no fraternizing rule, is why they spent their training together in the privacy of the dorms. And clearly you still aren't understanding. "you don't get to sleep in the same room with someone you'd want to have sex with. I mean, hell, it's even more torturous to be around someone you'd LIKE to have sex with and can't" It would become an issue if a lesbian living with a straight girl were able to walk down the hall to her girlfriend's room, when the straight service members don't have the same luxury. "I think no matter what, at least for basic training and maybe parts of OCS, anything involving a barracks type situation shouldn't be segregated (gay from straight) because the soldiers might have to be in this situation again when they are deployed, and need to be used to it." So gays should be allowed to room/visit with their partners, but straights shouldn't? Or are you saying everyone should be allowed to run around willy-nilly and all discipline by way of taking away soldiers' liberties should just go out the window? That's not how the military works. The military is about earning your liberties by learning your place in the system and obeying rules. If someone wishes to be free, they should stay a civilian. I don't think you have a clear idea of how to successfully mix strict training rules with an overturn of DADT, and I doubt Obama has a clear idea either. Not that I'm blaming you, I don't have any ideas about making it work either. It's something that will most likely take longer than 2 years to figure out.
snowbunny11 snowbunny11 7 years
Foxie- I see what you are saying. I think it's just odd that it's so essential to training that you don't get to sleep in the same room with someone you'd want to have sex with. I mean, hell, it's even more torturous to be around someone you'd LIKE to have sex with and can't, so I'd assume that would be a bigger deal. I think no matter what, at least for basic training and maybe parts of OCS, anything involving a barracks type situation shouldn't be segregated (gay from straight) because the soldiers might have to be in this situation again when they are deployed, and need to be used to it. But for the more advanced trainings, really I think they just need to put some walls up, and give everyone their own rooms, and I think that the policy should be the same for every couple, gay or straight. But I don't think DADT is the reason the lesbian you live near gets MORE rights, that just isn't logical.
organicsugr organicsugr 7 years
Wow. Awesome. I'm a huge Bob Ross fan.
foxie foxie 7 years
PS- Is the guy in the picture Peter Krause? He's a dead ringer for him!
foxie foxie 7 years
Oh and I believe for most services (I trained with all 4), the housing structure is like so... BMT/some deployments - Open bays Training - rooms with roommates Post training - individual rooms on base, or housing off base. Obviously, I've not been stationed everywhere, but from what my Army/Navy/Marines co workers have told me, this is basically the norm.
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