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Responsible White Separatists Have an Image Problem


"The responsible white separatist community condemns this,” he said. “It makes us look bad."

John De Nugent, an acquaintance of accused killer James von Brunn (pictured here), denounces yesterday's shooting at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC.

The white supremacist/separatist movement has tried to reframe itself as a movement about love and preservation of the white race rather than about racism and hatred. But to me, "responsible white separatists" makes as much sense as: empathetic racists, or accountable rapists.

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dikke-kus dikke-kus 7 years
This one really caused some fires. That guy's a stupid criminal trying to twist his ideas into something acceptable. He's a lowlife and a scumbag trying to be a smooth talker. Too many people are defending him to be politically correct. Maybe he thinks he'll get early parole. Love and preservation of the white race? Reminds me of Hitler.
Symphonee Symphonee 7 years
I have no problem with White Pride. I have a problem when the pride means that you blame the ills of your community and society on the influence of other races and culture. The difference here is that White Pride is celebrated every where. I have no problem with some white separatists views; however I have issue with the fact that the majority of there rhetoric is based upon the degradation of others. People who speak in a responsible manner always have a right to be heard. There might be some responsible white separatists (emphasis on the separatists) out there but the chances of finding them are often less than 1 in 50.
muchacha muchacha 7 years
@Jessy777 - is it considered hate speech if the speaker is promoting love and preservation of a particular race, without discussing the hierarchies between races? By saying von Brunn crossed "the line" - it calls into question what the line is. I think everyone draws their lines differently. What is the difference between spewing verbal garbage and opening fire on a crowd in the US Holocaust Museum? Can serious psychic injuries, such of those potentially suffered by Holocaust victims who might watch a Nazi march, ever justify a ban on such marches? (from www.law.umkc.edu)
Amanda-La Amanda-La 7 years
Well I agree with you Frank Y Ava. I don't really like being generalized into the white category because I am so many different cultures. I'm not proud of being white but I am proud of where I come from.
Frank-y-Ava Frank-y-Ava 7 years
*African-American* not just American. Even though I am proud of this country (for the most part) but that wasn't the point I was making.
Frank-y-Ava Frank-y-Ava 7 years
I think it's weird to be proud to be white but not weird to be proud to be German, Swedish, Irish, etc. Culture and nationality is way different than race. I wouldn't say I was proud to be black but I am proud of being American and Jamaican.
em1282 em1282 7 years
I just think the fundamental idea of teaching people that "races" should be separated is totally irresponsible, not to mention highly unrealistic (well, at least in my mind--someone can look up stats on how homogenized socieites are nowadays...I'm too lazy). I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but that's completely irresponsible and in my mind just lame.
sloane220 sloane220 7 years
@margokhal- i totally agree, people have always made distinctions about different cultures, but when white supremacy dominated the world it made it possible for people of european descent to justify doing inhumane things for economic prosperity such as keeping slaves for life, stealing land away from native americans, and colonizing and subjugating the native populations of asia, africa, and south america. this turned cultural distinctions into a system of oppression: racism. i believe in multiculturalism, people celebrating their respective cultures, while also being realistic and acknowledging history and knowing that the current systems of oppression we have in place didn't come out of a vacuum. i believe once we start seeing all cultures and ethnicities as equal and stop buying into the myth of white and european supremacy, then i then we can begin to redefine race without it's negative connotations.
sloane220 sloane220 7 years
chouette4u- what part of white separatism and advocacy of segregation is responsible?
margokhal margokhal 7 years
Jessy, I agree with you to an extent. Racial distinctions did exist before the European standard came into play. But the way we define race isn't the way they defined it - they were mostly cultural. Races were meant to establish identity and your location/where you were from then. It happened in Biblical times, it happened in Africa, it happened in North America before colonization. However, race became a detriment when the idea of supremacy ["we are better than you!"] came into play. To say that you are better, you must also say that someone/everyone else is inferior. And THAT is what led to all the hatred and violence that we have seen in history, and the deep-seated beliefs that run even still today in some groups. I don't know if there is a way to honor the struggles of our ancestors without releasing the racial identities that were thrust upon us. To acknowledge the struggles and identify yourself with the oppressed group, that identity must be embraced *with* all of its hardships. Race isn't really an illusion, just a cultural construct. We define what race is. As culture changes, definitions can change, too. Maybe what's needed is a redefinition - but really, there's no way or reason to redefine it. You could try to eliminate it entirely, but not a lot of people have jumped on the "we're ALL part of the HUMAN race" bandwagon simply because people are not treated equally still.
em1282 em1282 7 years
I meant to say "at the root of their beliefs doesn't lie fear and hatred".
em1282 em1282 7 years
"I feel like it's an oxymoron regardless of violence simply because, no matter what your ultimate goal, an attitude like that comes from a place of hatred and intolerance. " I hear ya tlsgirl. They can believe what they want to believe, but you can't make me think that at the root of their beliefs lies fear and hatred. It runs a lot deeper than "Eww, other colors are yucky!"
tlsgirl tlsgirl 7 years
I feel like it's an oxymoron regardless of violence simply because, no matter what your ultimate goal, an attitude like that comes from a place of hatred and intolerance.
Chouette4u Chouette4u 7 years
Just because these people hold some (offensive) views doesn't make them irresponsible, so I don't see how the term "responsible white separatist" is an oxymoron. I obviously don't agree with them, but I am glad this group is speaking out against violence.
jessy777 jessy777 7 years
"Even though, it was generally Anglo people who established "races" as we know them today [you know, the ones based on colors] and how they were viewed [i.e. White = the best]." That is a very good point. However, the distinction of people has existed for many years even in North America. Native American nations distinguished themselves based on location, appearance and language. Race is essentially an illusion but a very powerful one. No one is free of racial identity and can't be unless we release our hold on the labels and live as humans. But how do we do that without ignoring the lives and struggles of our ancestors and have respect for our own heritage?
cakeshinigami cakeshinigami 7 years
Pure races simply do not exist. Race is a concept made up by Europeans as a way to justify enslaving, killing and stealing the land of everyone else.
kulikuli kulikuli 7 years
Being proud of your race is one thing Sassy_chick, but supremacy (the quality or state of being supreme, highest in rank or authority) is completely different. He did not say he's proud of his race, but that he is a white supremest, promoting the idea that whites are better than everyone else. Like the rest of you i agree that we have freedom of speech here, but "responsible white separatists" makes absolutely no sense. It's sickening actually. I don't know if anyone ever notices the amount of racism we have going on in our country. When white separatists want separation of races and do act out violently such as cases like this or even the Oklahoma city bombing, the whole race is not condemned for the act, in fact we have people supporting their right to believe their thoughts. However when a situation like 9/11 happens, all Arab Americans are now considered terrorists. And please no one say that it didn't happen, because i still can't go through an airport without being "randomly searched" and patted down due to my ethnicity. I hope one day everyone is a shade of yellow, mixed with everything so that racism can finally disappear.
jessy777 jessy777 7 years
Free speech is protected but when that speech descends into hate speech that is used to incite violence, that isn't protected. Here is a link to look at some cases http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/hatespeech.htm I agree the 1st amendment does protect free speech but we have seen how it is not totally free. "Fire in a crowded theater" is banned because it incites panic and potential violence. When a person stands in front of a group and calls for a separation and the removal of a race, ethnic group or sex that is hate speech. The problem is people hide behind the 1st amendment. Person A spouts the hateful rhetoric to Person B who kills someone because of what they have heard. A is clean because they hide behind 'free speech' but B goes to prison. It seems unfair in that respect. Does that mean that hate crimes laws should be removed? I think it is a little naive to assume that the white supremacists movement of separation is non-violent. How do you think they are going to get that separation? The movement is rooted in violence and I don't see how what they say can be separated from what they do. The KKK and the Third Reich were supremacist movements. Also, don't think that they only support "white pride". What they mean is "white man pride" as women are generally a part of their attacks as well. That being said, my 1st amendment gives me the right to disagree with them. I am proud of my race and my heritage that is routed in Ireland, France, Germany on one side and Russian & Cherokee on the other. See I am not just one race/ethnicity as my heritage is a mix just like most people in America. "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire
sloane220 sloane220 7 years
there is no such thing as responsible white separatism. white separatists want to turn back clock and go back to the time when all this countries resources were automatically handed to them on a platter to the disadvantage of everyone else. separate and unequal. i think white separatism leads to nothing but blind hatred of others and eventually violence. now white separatists are on the fringes of society, but remember when the majority of this country thought that way and were legally affirmed in that thinking? you know separate but equal segregation? which led to substandard housing, education, and medical care, lack of job opportunities, and two justice systems (which still exists, btw) one for whites and one for blacks? you know what that led to? the klu klux klan helping to keep darkies in their place, which was away from white people, along with average citizenry lynching and burning alive black men, women, and children. hate speech isn't just hate speech, it eventually leads to violent actions and i wish there was some kind of legal censure for it. in many european countries they have laws against racist abuse because they know full well the ugly road hate speech can lead to.catepillar girl- i don't think a white separatist could even see my humanity, so if by some suprise they didn't want my black ass dead, they'd want me to be subservient to them.sassy chick-OH PLEASE. we live in a racist society where white people on are on the top of the totem pole. a white person living in THIS country never needs to affirm their sense of pride in country that working to systematically put them at a disadvantage based on the color of their skin. maybe that's why you'll hear statements like black pride or i'm black and i'm proud because this society was not made to affirm a person of color. it just wasn't. and what is "white pride" anyway. i didn't know "white" was a culture. maybe irish pride, danish pride, or english pride. but yeah when i hear white pride, i'm automatically going to think you're repping for the klan.
sloane220 sloane220 7 years
there is no such thing as responsible white separatism. white separatists want to turn back clock and go back to the time when all this countries resources were automatically handed to them on a platter to the disadvantage of everyone else. separate and unequal. i think white separatism leads to nothing but blind hatred of others and eventually violence. now white separatists are on the fringes of society, but remember when the majority of this country thought that way and were legally affirmed in that thinking? you know separate but equal segregation? which led to substandard housing, education, and medical care, lack of job opportunities, and two justice systems (which still exists, btw) one for whites and one for blacks? you know what that led to? the klu klux klan helping to keep darkies in their place, which was away from white people, along with average citizenry lynching and burning alive black men, women, and children. hate speech isn't just hate speech, it eventually leads to violent actions and i wish there was some kind of legal censure for it. in many european countries they have laws against racist abuse because they know full well the ugly road hate speech can lead to. catepillar girl- i don't think a white separatist could even see my humanity, so if by some suprise they didn't want my black ass dead, they'd want me to be subservient to them. sassy chick-OH PLEASE. we live in a racist society where white people on are on the top of the totem pole. a white person living in THIS country never needs to affirm their sense of pride in country that working to systematically put them at a disadvantage based on the color of their skin. maybe that's why you'll hear statements like black pride or i'm black and i'm proud because this society was not made to affirm a person of color. it just wasn't. and what is "white pride" anyway. i didn't know "white" was a culture. maybe irish pride, danish pride, or english pride. but yeah when i hear white pride, i'm automatically going to think you're repping for the klan.
margokhal margokhal 7 years
I read this post and LOL'ed. Not because it's funny, but because it's dumb. I can understand people being proud of their races. Even though, it was generally Anglo people who established "races" as we know them today [you know, the ones based on colors] and how they were viewed [i.e. White = the best]. The reason there was a "black power" movement [and NOT the Black Panthers - that's about as ridiculous as saying the KKK represents all white people] was because there was such systematic oppression of the people and their culture in the US. It was mostly about establishing identity and getting people to recognize that being black was okay - it doesn't mean anything is *wrong* with you. There has never been any indication that somebody has made the insinuation that "being white is wrong"...so it really doesn't make sense. Why do you need to elevate and separate what is generally already seen as "the top"?"Love and preservation of the white race"? Seriously? I don't see white people or Eurocentric ideals and standards going anywhere anytime soon...And didn't we learn from history about "separate but equal"? I have NEVER heard or seen a white separatist or supremacist who wanted to promote the white race WITHOUT raving diatribes against other races. Just does not make sense. slightly off-topic P.S. about the comments: If I knew how make the ROFL emoticon, I would! :D
margokhal margokhal 7 years
I read this post and LOL'ed. Not because it's funny, but because it's dumb. I can understand people being proud of their races. Even though, it was generally Anglo people who established "races" as we know them today [you know, the ones based on colors] and how they were viewed [i.e. White = the best]. The reason there was a "black power" movement [and NOT the Black Panthers - that's about as ridiculous as saying the KKK represents all white people] was because there was such systematic oppression of the people and their culture in the US. It was mostly about establishing identity and getting people to recognize that being black was okay - it doesn't mean anything is *wrong* with you. There has never been any indication that somebody has made the insinuation that "being white is wrong"...so it really doesn't make sense. Why do you need to elevate and separate what is generally already seen as "the top"? "Love and preservation of the white race"? Seriously? I don't see white people or Eurocentric ideals and standards going anywhere anytime soon... And didn't we learn from history about "separate but equal"? I have NEVER heard or seen a white separatist or supremacist who wanted to promote the white race WITHOUT raving diatribes against other races. Just does not make sense. slightly off-topic P.S. about the comments: If I knew how make the ROFL emoticon, I would! :D
CaterpillarGirl CaterpillarGirl 7 years
(washing my hands of this thread!) sorry I riled up so many, who knew people followed me so closely (not you space)
CaterpillarGirl CaterpillarGirl 7 years
(washing my hands of this thread!) sorry I riled up so many, who knew people followed me so closely (not you space)
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