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Where Do You Stand: Parental Notification For Teen Abortions

I was flipping through my Official Voter Information Guide the other night and started reading about California's Proposition 4, which involves parental notification for minors' abortions. I took a quick poll of my friends in the room, and they were divided, so I want to know what you all think. The amendment would prohibit abortion for a minor until 48 hours after the doctor notifies a parent or legal guardian. The requirement can be waived if the minor provides, in court, clear and convincing evidence that a waiver is in her best interest. The voter pamphlet included arguments and rebuttals from both sides. Here are some excerpts (emphasis all theirs):

  • Argument in Favor of Proposition 4: It's time to close the loophole in California law that allows minor girls to be taken for secret chemical or surgical abortions by anyone — even an adult male who impregnated her — WITHOUT THE DOCTOR NOTIFYING ANY FAMILY MEMBER. These predators can even take girls out of school to hide their crimes. . . . Proposition 4 would require doctors to notify a parent or, in case of parental abuse, another adult family member.
  • Argument Against Proposition 4: A SCARED, PREGNANT TEEN who can't go to her parents can feel trapped and desperate. Instead of seeking the counseling and safe medical care she needs, she MAY CHOOSE AN UNSAFE, BACK ALLEY, ILLEGAL ABORTION, GO ACROSS THE BORDER, OR EVEN CONTEMPLATE SUICIDE. . . . If our daughters couldn't come to us, for whatever reason, the most important thing is keeping them safe. Think about it: she's pregnant, she can't go to her parents, and she's already desperate. She isn't going to go to court to reveal the most intimate details of her life to an unfamiliar judge in a impersonal courthouse.

You can read the full arguments and rebuttals here.

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hithatsmybike hithatsmybike 7 years
That requires time, lainetm, which is a luxury in a crisis situation such as awaiting a blood transfusion or say, getting an abortion. Time is seriously limited in both cases. Let's cut the red tape and let the girls exercise authority over their person.
hithatsmybike hithatsmybike 7 years
That requires time, lainetm, which is a luxury in a crisis situation such as awaiting a blood transfusion or say, getting an abortion. Time is seriously limited in both cases. Let's cut the red tape and let the girls exercise authority over their person.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
"Is there any pro-choice parents opposed to this bill?" Me! I believe abortion stops a life, but I wouldn't prevent anyone else from having one. Also, I'm old enough to be *your* mother. The government has no business interfering in my family. I believe a 16-year-old could petition for emancipation, in a case like the one you mention. That's her choice, though, not the government's unsolicited intrusion.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
"Is there any pro-choice parents opposed to this bill?" Me! I believe abortion stops a life, but I wouldn't prevent anyone else from having one. Also, I'm old enough to be *your* mother. The government has no business interfering in my family. I believe a 16-year-old could petition for emancipation, in a case like the one you mention. That's her choice, though, not the government's unsolicited intrusion.
hithatsmybike hithatsmybike 7 years
LilRuck, I'm a 3rd year college student -- I don't have children, but I'm closer to 16 than 30, enough that I remember very well what it was like to be that age (and I'm first to recognize teenagers are dumb as shit). I've never been pregnant, but if I had become pregnant at 16, abortion would have been the right choice. Otherwise I'd have a school-aged child by now AND I probably wouldn't be finishing up my first of many university degrees. In any case, even though I had excellent & supportive parents, I'd probably want to avoid the drama of disappointing them with news that I'd gotten myself knocked-up. There wouldn't have been any punishment and I wouldn't be bombarded with pressure to keep it, but getting pregnant would have been enough of a headache at the time. I'd probably tell them after it was done with. I believe I had a right to that as a teen, and my country, thankfully, agrees with me. Is there any pro-choice parents opposed to this bill? Because it seems the only people against it are the ones interested in preventing the abortion from occurring in the first place. There was one comment, I think it was on the first page, that mentioned parents should be notified to watch for depression, which is completely valid. But thus far that's all I've seen of the pro-choice parent side. Say a 16 year old Jehova's Witness girl needs a blood transfusion in order to live. While she is willing, her parents refuse because it is against their beliefs.They are her legal guardians in charge of her health, and because patients have the right to refuse treatment, they CAN make this decision NOT to opt for the transfusion for her because she is a minor.Does the 16 year old girl have a right to make this decision, pertaining to her own body and her own health, without parental consent?
hithatsmybike hithatsmybike 7 years
LilRuck, I'm a 3rd year college student -- I don't have children, but I'm closer to 16 than 30, enough that I remember very well what it was like to be that age (and I'm first to recognize teenagers are dumb as shit). I've never been pregnant, but if I had become pregnant at 16, abortion would have been the right choice. Otherwise I'd have a school-aged child by now AND I probably wouldn't be finishing up my first of many university degrees. In any case, even though I had excellent & supportive parents, I'd probably want to avoid the drama of disappointing them with news that I'd gotten myself knocked-up. There wouldn't have been any punishment and I wouldn't be bombarded with pressure to keep it, but getting pregnant would have been enough of a headache at the time. I'd probably tell them after it was done with. I believe I had a right to that as a teen, and my country, thankfully, agrees with me. Is there any pro-choice parents opposed to this bill? Because it seems the only people against it are the ones interested in preventing the abortion from occurring in the first place. There was one comment, I think it was on the first page, that mentioned parents should be notified to watch for depression, which is completely valid. But thus far that's all I've seen of the pro-choice parent side. Say a 16 year old Jehova's Witness girl needs a blood transfusion in order to live. While she is willing, her parents refuse because it is against their beliefs. They are her legal guardians in charge of her health, and because patients have the right to refuse treatment, they CAN make this decision NOT to opt for the transfusion for her because she is a minor. Does the 16 year old girl have a right to make this decision, pertaining to her own body and her own health, without parental consent?
LiLRuck44 LiLRuck44 7 years
Libertarians rock ;)
LiLRuck44 LiLRuck44 7 years
Libertarians rock ;)
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Lil! "In fact I'm probably abnormal in that I want the government completely out of my business!" You're not abnormal, your libertarian!! Isn't it great!
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Lil!"In fact I'm probably abnormal in that I want the government completely out of my business!"You're not abnormal, your libertarian!! Isn't it great!
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
"People that are for proposition 4 are anti-freedom, and that's all." Correction: People that are against Proposition 4 are anti-family. And for government intrusion into private family matters.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 7 years
"People that are for proposition 4 are anti-freedom, and that's all." Correction: People that are against Proposition 4 are <i>anti-family</i>. And <i>for</i> government intrusion into private family matters.
LiLRuck44 LiLRuck44 7 years
Do you have children? Because I really hear what you're saying about the personal freedom, I really do. In fact I'm probably abnormal in that I want the government completely out of my business! But seriously, we're talking about children here, who simply do not know all there is to know at 15. There is a reason babies are born to parents and not just born and left to raise themselves. Actually there are a million reasons. (I don't think anyone is denying that there are some cases in which a teenager needing consent could put them in danger. Surely I believe that, at least. What about cases from the other perspective, teens taking the easy way out to avoid their parents, and the damage that causes?)
LiLRuck44 LiLRuck44 7 years
Do you have children? Because I really hear what you're saying about the personal freedom, I really do. In fact I'm probably abnormal in that I want the government completely out of my business! But seriously, we're talking about children here, who simply do not know all there is to know at 15. There is a reason babies are born to parents and not just born and left to raise themselves. Actually there are a million reasons. (I don't think anyone is denying that there are some cases in which a teenager needing consent could put them in danger. Surely I believe that, at least. What about cases from the other perspective, teens taking the easy way out to avoid their parents, and the damage that causes?)
LiLRuck44 LiLRuck44 7 years
I'm curious how old you are, Hithatsmybike.
LiLRuck44 LiLRuck44 7 years
Yea GS, right there with you.
LiLRuck44 LiLRuck44 7 years
Yea GS, right there with you.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
"People that are for proposition 4 are anti-freedom, and that's all."No, people that are for Prop 4 want their children to be protected. There is not an invasion of freedoms, because children rarely know what is really in their best interest, especially in the long term. There needs to be parental consent, especially if there could be legal consequences of the child's decisions.
UnDave35 UnDave35 7 years
"People that are for proposition 4 are anti-freedom, and that's all." No, people that are for Prop 4 want their children to be protected. There is not an invasion of freedoms, because children rarely know what is really in their best interest, especially in the long term. There needs to be parental consent, especially if there could be legal consequences of the child's decisions.
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Wow
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 7 years
Wow
hithatsmybike hithatsmybike 7 years
Justanerd, whether God exists or not has no bearing on Doctor-Patient confidentiality, which is why there's no room for him in this issue.People that are for proposition 4 are anti-freedom, and that's all. I know many of you are dancing around this reality and trying to argue for the guardianship of parents or the sanctity of life, but what you really need to admit to yourselves is you are opposed to the right a person may exercise over their own existence. You are opposed to their privacy. You are opposed to the authority they have over their own person. You are anti-freedom.There's no God here, it's a fundamental moral dilemma with or without his presence/existence and it doesn't hinge on when a mass of cells becomes "human".A mass of cells is alive in the sense it is capable of death, a person is alive by the same definition -- this doesn't make them equal. But this is not that argument. This is an argument for safe access to healthcare and the right to make your own decisions. I don't mind if you pray for me, justanerd. It's not offensive, it's just a shame you don't have anything better to do.
hithatsmybike hithatsmybike 7 years
Justanerd, whether God exists or not has no bearing on Doctor-Patient confidentiality, which is why there's no room for him in this issue. People that are for proposition 4 are anti-freedom, and that's all. I know many of you are dancing around this reality and trying to argue for the guardianship of parents or the sanctity of life, but what you really need to admit to yourselves is you are opposed to the right a person may exercise over their own existence. You are opposed to their privacy. You are opposed to the authority they have over their own person. You are anti-freedom. There's no God here, it's a fundamental moral dilemma with or without his presence/existence and it doesn't hinge on when a mass of cells becomes "human". A mass of cells is alive in the sense it is capable of death, a person is alive by the same definition -- this doesn't make them equal. But this is not that argument. This is an argument for safe access to healthcare and the right to make your own decisions. I don't mind if you pray for me, justanerd. It's not offensive, it's just a shame you don't have anything better to do.
justanerd1975 justanerd1975 7 years
you would be offended if someone told you they were going to pray for you because your not saved?? that is the nuttiest thing I have ever heard! that's like saying that if your burning in a building that's on fire, don't try and help you out because you know, you like it in there and it's your choice to want to be on fire. No Way, I'm going to bust ina window or a door and pull you out!! I respect that you for some reason choose to reject salvation but, no way am I ever gonna not pray for the unsaved. That would be sin to do that for me, because the Bible says to pray for those who are as of yet unsaved. So sorry if this makes you mad but, I will be praying for you too geebers :) The validity of a fetus's life is debated not because it is debatable, or in question, but because some people do not want to believe that a fetus is a growing human infant From The Very Moment Of Conception On. Aboprtion is an issue despite the fact that there IS a definitive truth about this. It is still an issue because we people are selfish inherently, and we want to be able to abort babies that are inconvinient for us to deal with at the time. Sorry but that is the truth. I don't look down on/judge/hate/dismiss or whatever else those who have chosen abortion in the past or those who are choosing one now. It is the act that I despise not the person.
justanerd1975 justanerd1975 7 years
you would be offended if someone told you they were going to pray for you because your not saved?? that is the nuttiest thing I have ever heard! that's like saying that if your burning in a building that's on fire, don't try and help you out because you know, you like it in there and it's your choice to want to be on fire. No Way, I'm going to bust ina window or a door and pull you out!! I respect that you for some reason choose to reject salvation but, no way am I ever gonna not pray for the unsaved. That would be sin to do that for me, because the Bible says to pray for those who are as of yet unsaved. So sorry if this makes you mad but, I will be praying for you too geebers :) The validity of a fetus's life is debated not because it is debatable, or in question, but because some people do not want to believe that a fetus is a growing human infant From The Very Moment Of Conception On. Aboprtion is an issue despite the fact that there IS a definitive truth about this. It is still an issue because we people are selfish inherently, and we want to be able to abort babies that are inconvinient for us to deal with at the time. Sorry but that is the truth. I don't look down on/judge/hate/dismiss or whatever else those who have chosen abortion in the past or those who are choosing one now. It is the act that I despise not the person.
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