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Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
I suspect a lot of us here don't know many "undecideds", but that's because we're engaged in the process, and presumably associate with other folks who are similarly engaged. That doesn't mean they're not out there, though. Last time I was at the hairdresser, my stylist--who is about 60--asked what I thought. (Yes, I was fair!)
UnDave35 UnDave35 8 years
Wow,, this conversation went nowhere fast :oy:
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 8 years
:rotfl: Lost me for a minute on the whore thing! Now I follow!
piper23 piper23 8 years
True-Song True-Song 8 years
It was hyperbole. I was saying there's a difference between saying "Hmm, McCain wasn't where he said he was, that's odd..." and saying "OMG McCain cheated! He's a lying cheater! He sucks, he is stupid, akljsafh hlkf!"
piper23 piper23 8 years
I didn't call anyone a whore so I'm not following you.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
Whore is a bad word? What's the point in putting the asterisk in there, we all still know what it says...
True-Song True-Song 8 years
>So the assumption that my candidate cheated without proof of that just seems a little low and sad IMO. I'd be upset about that, too. But I don't think discussing the possibility of cheating is the same thing as saying, "Well, he did well, so obviously cheated. Also he's a liar and a whore."
piper23 piper23 8 years
You're right again, Torg, I'm so not the boss of you. Proof is not needed in this scenario. He should have been where he was suppose to be and it would have alleviated all of this cheating conspiracy theory stuff. I just choose to believe the best in my candidate and would hope that he wouldn't have cheated. Afterall, even though I don't agree with Obama's stance on just about everything - I don't call his integrity into question. His judgement, maybe, but I don't think he's dishonest. So the assumption that my candidate cheated without proof of that just seems a little low and sad IMO.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
>Ok, you're right, Torg, he cheated Excuse me? If you look at comments in this post and the other on the subject, you'll see that my stance is that McCain most likely didn't cheat (though it's a high stakes thing, running for president, and so I wouldn't be surprised if his staff tried to get him the questions). And I have said that I thought McCain did extremely well and that I was, in fact, disappointed in my own candidate's performance. I do think it's a very poor move of McCain to have shown up when he did and then play along as though he was in some kind of isolated room the whole time. If he had just gone with whatever the original plan was or been upfront about where he was, he wouldn't be bringing all this suspicion onto himself. >Seriously though, all I have to say is prove it. And if you can't prove it then stop speculating because its just getting sad at this point. Um, no. All I have the urge to say here is, "You're not the boss of me!" which seems the only appropriate, admittedly childish, response to a command like that.
stephley stephley 8 years
The interview I saw Warren did indicate he didn't originally know McCain wasn't there at the beginning of the interview. I also read a transcript in which Warren indicated it was about half-way into Obama's interview when McCain arrived at Saddleback. I think overall, McCain did best with the live audience, but wouldn't say 'he won' anything - no one's changing their vote because of his masterful job. He did a fine job in presenting himself. But he knew the rules before arriving a half hour late, he or someone on his staff knew, that Saddleback had said the other candidate would be in a special room during questioning of the first candidate - he wasn't there and then on stage, pretended that he was.
piper23 piper23 8 years
Ok, you're right, Torg, he cheated and Obama didn't do as bad as it looked because McCain saw the whole thing live via a disconnected monitor. I'm so glad we've figured this whole thing out. And I agree that we shouldn't have any more debates because that lying, cheating McCain will probably use one of those ear thingamabobs and get the anwers fed to him. Of course he can't win any debates against Obama on his own, that would be ludicrous. Seriously though, all I have to say is prove it. And if you can't prove it then stop speculating because its just getting sad at this point.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
But didn't Rick Warren think McCain was at the church the whole time? He didn't know McCain got there half way through. So anything he has to say, he's obviously learning after the fact.
piper23 piper23 8 years
Rick Warren was on Hannity and Colmes and said that McCain had not arrived when he began questioning Obama and as a result missed the part where Rick Warren gave Obama a question that he was going to ask. He said that he had intended to give the question to both candidates but since McCain was late, he missed the opportunity. So Obama actually had a leg up no one of the questions beforehand. Warren went on to say that McCain was in a seperate building with a disconnected monitor surrounded by his security people and the secret service. So if you believe that McCain cheated then secret service and the Saddleback security peeps would have had to be in on the conspiracy. I prefer to believe that Obama lost fair and square but that's just me.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 8 years
I was under the impression that the "cone of silence" was not necessarily a particular place, but more a state of being, meaning that he did not hear the questions and what Obama said, not that he was actually sitting in an isolation booth. Further, even if it was a particular place, McCain did not say he was contained there the entire time when questioned by Warren about it. And, while these are opinion questions with no right or wrong answer, the style of answering can be examined when determining a "winner." I think the fact that many of Obama's supporters have put a great emphasis on his speaking abilities makes examining the style of answering more important than it may have been in previous elections.
stephley stephley 8 years
Well don't play the slots game because those points take forever to amount to anything. Savvy quizzes are good.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 8 years
I'm jealous that you went diamond before me steph. I've been slacking.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 8 years
stephley stephley 8 years
No one I know is on the fence. And I'd just as soon have no more debates - we know what they're going to say and we know what we're going to think of what they say.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 8 years
UGHHHHHH! Who cares? What is the point of any more debates? Is anyone still on the fence? I don't know one person who is still deciding who to vote for. Do any of you? I'm seriously asking. I say we just have a BIG barbecue til then. UnDave can grill us up some steakburgers, I'll make my killer bloody mary's, and Jude will entertain us with some best of the early nineties songs. :drinks: :feedme: :sing:
janneth janneth 8 years
No, what really matters is that he was not contained in the cone of silence.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
Oh, I forgot to add: Does no one here repeat themselves for empahsis? I know I do, I occasionally say "yeah, yeah" in an effort to expedite a conversation. Really, I'd be open to hearing details of a plausible conspiracy. This, however, is just shouting wolf. I believe it undercuts the credibility of those who promote it as coordinated, intentional cheating.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 8 years
Thanks, now I have images of McCain in a Where's Waldo outfit, too. Bah! From the L.A. Times (not exactly a hotbed of conservatism): McCain was headed to the church -- in a motorcade supervised by the Secret Service -- when Warren's interview with Obama began. Upon arriving at the church, he was taken to a so-called "green room" to await his turn. ... And the New York Times Caucus blog details that Warren, aside from outlining in advance for Obama and McCain general topics he would cover, also told each well before the forum convened that he would specifically pose these queries: What is your greatest moral failing? What is America’s greatest moral failing? And who are the three people you rely on most for wise advice? Ref: Here's what *really* matters: Does anyone think the candidates' answers would have been any different if they had the full list two weeks in advance? I don't.
Jillness Jillness 8 years
"He also stated that he was not aware that McCain was not at the church until after the event." I think this is the point of the matter. Lilblu, I LOVE the color of your avtar. So rich!
liliblu liliblu 8 years
Lauer not Laur.
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