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Michelann Michelann 8 years
If you're not interested in pursuing it, then why would you mention it? Honestly, I don't care because I'm not even sure what you're implying.
stephley stephley 8 years
Obviously I'm not picky and Jane Goodall has no scientific credentials. But your response raises questions about some of your environmental comments - though I'm not interested in pursuing that.
Michelann Michelann 8 years
In terms of scientific studies, I'm pretty pick about what I consider reliable. It has to be reliable to the scientific community as well. Unfortunately, the Organic Consumers Association is a terribly biased source of information on this topic, so I wouldn't trust it.
stephley stephley 8 years
There's likely a very big difference between what you and I consider reliable. I could point some sources out, but I think people learn better when they do the research themselves. You could start by googling the Organic Consumers Association or Jane Goodall and GMOs but again, I doubt you'd consider either 'reliable' for your purposes.
Michelann Michelann 8 years
I'm not sure where you're getting your information. Everything I have read says that they're not dangerous. There have been a few tests on rats that showed liver damage, but the vast majority of scientists have condemned these tests. The GM potato used in the tests was never meant for human consumption, and in fact "the gene introduced into the potatoes was a snowdrop flower lectin, a substance known to be toxic to mammals". Maybe you should point me in the direction of these studies, because I can't seem to find any reliable material that says GM crops aren't safe.
stephley stephley 8 years
Nitrogen fixing trees are not magical, they're local - it just took someone who knew what they were doing to come up with the companion planting idea. The U.N. and environmental groups have been paying for the fertilizer. Magic seed companies not only charge for their seeds, but have patented seeds worldwide so they could sue farmers who carried on their traditional seed trading practices. Tests on animals so far suggest that gmo foods damage the liver, cause stomach lesions, spark cell growth that could be a precursor to cancer and cause premature death. Animals have undergone testicular changes after being fed gmo foods, there have been high litter mortality rates and infertility. Remember before making a poor African sick with cancer or even just stomach lesions, hospitals and medical treatment there aren't like here - gmo foods may simply feed them for a while before creating new and potentially deadly pain and suffering.
Michelann Michelann 8 years
Well if I were the rainmaker, I'd help these people out, but I'm not, so I can't do much to improve the drought. The solutions you're proposing do not sound like reasonable solutions for huge regions and thousands of people. Who do you suggest should pay for all that fertilizer and these magical trees? And how will we pay to repurchase this fertilizer with every new harvest? It occurs to me that this conversation is pointless unless we have some evidence that GM crops are dangerous. I haven't see any. I don't see any reason why we can't combine other methods with GM seeds to produce the most amount of food and save the most lives.
stephley stephley 8 years
Sorry - back to school shopping. GMO adapts seeds to crappy conditions; a better longrange solution is to improve the conditions. In some places in Africa, depleted dried out soils are getting nitrogen boosts by trees (don't remember their name just that they're legume-ous) planted nearby. Earth Institute has bought some villages tons of fertilizers that had been priced way out of the farmer's reach - anything that rebuilds the agricultural land is better than magic seeds that can grow in dust and produce food that might someday harm you.
Michelann Michelann 8 years
What better ways?
stephley stephley 8 years
Because the Africans might get cancer 20 years (or fewer, remember they're constantly making NEW gmo foods) down the road and why risk their lives when there are better ways to grow food in drought stricken parts of Africa? I hope they're telling the Africans what the trade off is before they start planting.
Michelann Michelann 8 years
The thing about Genetically modified foods is that, even on the off chance they give you cancer 20 years down the road, it's better than dying of starvation right now. They're developing GM crops that can grow in parts of Africa that have suffered from decades-long droughts. I think that's pretty amazing and I can't understand why somebody might oppose it.
UnDave35 UnDave35 8 years
"In fact, we may - gasp - learn from those mistakes. " That's not been the American government's way before. Why should we belive future performances will be anything different from past performances?
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 8 years
He actually has some good points about genetically modified foods as well.
Great-Sommelier Great-Sommelier 8 years
I love John Stossel and his big bushy mustache.
ajhodge ajhodge 8 years
John Stossel is an idiot, and his argument is specious. Just because policies aimed at making us energy independent have failed in the bast doesn't mean they will continue to do so. In fact, we may - gasp - learn from those mistakes. America shouldn't be dependent on foreign countries that actively back organizations trying to attack it for a resource that it literally can't do without. But energy independence is also a pipe dream - we need energy interdependence. Robert Bryce has a new book out called "Gusher of Lies" that I've begun to read. I recommend it to anybody who is interested in this topic. While I don't agree with everything he says I think he makes some good points. And energy interdependence a bit more realistic than outright independence and much safer than near-total dependence.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
I'm also just sort of generally unimpressed with anything that might give me cancer in 20 years, because that seems to be pretty much everything nowadays.
stephley stephley 8 years
I hope so because what they're doing in GMO foods is different from what gardeners and botanists have been doing all along.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
I know, I know. It sounds so incredibly lame. I think the gist was similar to the article: we've been modifying plants for a long, long time without detriment to society. But there was other, more science-y stuff I'm sure.
stephley stephley 8 years
yeah torg, we may have to change your lefty/crunchy persona membership to provisional without a good explanation!
amybdk amybdk 8 years
I wish you could remember, Torg!
True-Song True-Song 8 years
Contrary to my generally leftist/crunchy persona, I have no problem with genetically modified foods. I know this will sound dumb, but I can't tell you why, but I took a bio class in college where we talked about it a lot and in detail, and at the end I felt strongly and had good reasons. I still feel strongly, I just can't remember the reasons many, many years later.
stephley stephley 8 years
"This is, of course, to help uncover terrorists and other criminals. Customs and Border Protection say they are not using the information to look for patterns of movement, but admit the data could be used by other law enforcement agencies that are trying out new technology designed to uncover suspicious or criminal behavior." How useful is the information if they're NOT looking for patterns? Sounds like they're just collecting information because they can. And John Stoessel is an idiot if he thinks energy independence and the end of trade go hand in hand.
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