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Ohio Democratic Debate

Who's Watching the Ohio Debate With Us?

Aw, back again so soon?! Yes, yes, your eyes are not deceiving you, it's time for a another romp through debates-ville! Liberty and I will be around, the stakes are high enough this time that sparks may just fly. It's on MSNBC at 6 p.m. PST. Come join us in the comments! And don't worry, we're guaranteeing a stab-free post debate wrap-up tomorrow.

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Cadet Cadet 9 years
Jillness, I would never accuse you of defending candidates without basis! But I wasn't referring to you personally. In fact, I don't know how this became personal. I was just trying to point out that not everyone sees Clinton as monstrously as you do. Or sees Obama as saintly as some do. I haven't seen anything substantial that states that Obama's healthcare plan has a better chance of passing than Clinton's. "You see, the Obama campaign has demonized the idea of mandates — most recently in a scare-tactics mailer sent to voters that bears a striking resemblance to the “Harry and Louise” ads run by the insurance lobby in 1993, ads that helped undermine our last chance at getting universal health care. If Mr. Obama gets to the White House and tries to achieve universal coverage, he’ll find that it can’t be done without mandates — but if he tries to institute mandates, the enemies of reform will use his own words against him. If you combine the economic analysis with these political realities, here’s what I think it says: If Mrs. Clinton gets the Democratic nomination, there is some chance — nobody knows how big — that we’ll get universal health care in the next administration. If Mr. Obama gets the nomination, it just won’t happen."
Jillness Jillness 9 years
You won't get any disagreements from me! Just because people disagree doesnt mean they don't want you to have your opinion or explain it.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 9 years
I am not upset that some of you aren't supporting Hillary. I am simply defending my candidate as passionately as you are defending yours. It's a two way street. I have every right to my opinions, as do you. I don't care if you don't trust her. I do. So what now? We are at a standstill. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I've done all the research on both sides. I'm very informed and I have made my choice. You aren't going to sway me and clearly I'm not going to sway you, but I will continue to defend Hillary. I will support who I choose and I encourage you to do the same.
Jillness Jillness 9 years
"defending candidates with no basis" In my last post I clearly laid out the basis for my opinion. I didn't see other posters making baseless claims either, so this point confuses me. I find it funny that the actual issues have stopped being discussed, and now we are focusing on other posters. Since this is a forum for political discussion, the pros and cons of candidates and their policies are going to be involved. Simply stating your opinion isn't an act of suppression, and agreement isn't a form of "singular thinking". Cadet, I don't like to "bicker", and would much rather discuss the issues with you. What are your thoughts to my post on her strategy with health care? Do you think her current plan could get a majority to vote for it?
Cadet Cadet 9 years
tresjolie, I'm sorry you felt that I was sniping. That wasn't my intention at all and I apologize to both you and Jillness. I know things can be easily misinterpreted over the internet. Also, thank you for thinking that I don't pay attention. It seems to keep coming back to that. But I must feel the same way about Obama that you feel about Clinton. I feel as if I'm missing some grand point. I can't seem to see what you people are talking about. I'm not a Hillary supporter. I'm not an Obama supporter, either. I think whichever one of them secures the nomination will do exactly what the party wants them to. I'm actually indifferent. I'm just bothered by everyone's singular thinking. We keep mentioning words like "right," "wrong," "always," and "never." Those words have no place here. Nothing is that black and white. I agree with Clinton's healthcare plan and budget plan. I think Obama is a better person. He presents himself much better and if I had to choose one to go to dinner with, it wouldn't be Hill. But I think a lot of people keep spouting the same thing over and over again, defending candidates with no basis, and I for one am tired of the broken record. I'm just trying to see what everyone's so excited about. It just isn't clear to me. "I don't like them." That's great. I want some real reasons. And not the ones I've heard like a million times before. That's all.
trésjolie1 trésjolie1 9 years
Cadet- Fair enough. But it seems to me that you and Harmonyfrance are quite upset that others aren't supporting Hillary, as if we, and the media, and Oprah and God and who know who else, are missing some grand point. And sniping at Jillness for standing up for her candidate seems a little small, but I guess bitch is the new black, and all that. If you paid attention you would see that we try to keep it about the candidates and their policies and campaigns, and not singling out one commenter and have a go at her "thinking". Nobody told you that you should be ashamed to be a Hillary supporter, and there is room for everybody here.
Jillness Jillness 9 years
I never said everyone had to agree with me, and your point that other people have their own opinions has NEVER been in question. "I like that even after Clinton failed to get her previous healthcare plan passed, she's still sticking to her guns and not modifying her plan in order to get it to pass." I see this as being stubborn and foolish. Think of all of the people who could have used some kind of health care reform 10 years ago!! Because she over reached, people have suffered. When you ask for too much, you get nothing. If you are more reasonable with your ideas, people get help. Even if you go by Hillary's numbers, 300+ million people would benefit from Obama's plan, and it is a plan that could make it through Congress. Sometimes to achieve our end goal, we need to take steps to get there. Forcing people to chose all or nothing is a good political game, but it ignores the needs of the people. That is my opinion.
Cadet Cadet 9 years
tresjolie, I didn't say she was forcing anything on anyone. I simply stated that while she feels that way, not everyone does. Maybe you should take your own advice?
trésjolie1 trésjolie1 9 years
"But Jillness, that's your opinion. And while you're more than entitled to it, not everyone agrees with you." I didn't see her forcing everyone to think as she does. Where did you guys get that idea? Maybe we should pay more attention to others arguments before we put words in their mouths and actions on their record.
kikischnapps kikischnapps 9 years
I was a little disappointed with both candidates response to the last question about "what question do you feel like your opponent needs to answer" I thought that was a good opportunity for both people to really ask a hard question to the other and they both seemed to just bunt it.
Cadet Cadet 9 years
But Jillness, that's your opinion. And while you're more than entitled to it, not everyone agrees with you. I don't believe Clinton has regretted everything she's voted for. She's been involved with more Senate decisions than Obama has. Obviously that would lead to a higher margin of error. I like that even after Clinton failed to get her previous healthcare plan passed, she's still sticking to her guns and not modifying her plan in order to get it to pass. She understands that everyone needs coverage and that's something she's serious and passionate about. It would be easy to change her plan to garner more popularity. At some point, as a world leader, we will need all of our citizens to have healthcare coverage. I'm already paying for the uninsured's emergency costs, and so are you.
Jillness Jillness 9 years
That is funny that you trust Hillary, because the main reason why I don't support her is that I do not trust her. I don't trust her ideas, they have failed before. I don't trust her votes, she regrets them. I don't trust her critiques, she lies. I don't trust her policy, she can't define how she would get it done. I don't trust her history, she keeps it sealed. I don't trust her.
Jillness Jillness 9 years
"It's like a popularity contest...especially with the youth. " You are assuming the reasons why other people vote. Obama also gets the vast majority of college graduates to vote for him. Maybe your assumptions should be equal opportunity... Hillary can fight tooth and nail, but as her last health care plan shows, even when she "fights" she doesn't get stuff done. Her "fighting" abilities don't matter because they aren't beneficial. Maybe if she stopped fighting, and started trying to sway people based on the merits of her ideas she would get something done. Say what you will about Obama's experience, he has already passed several pieces of legislation that he co-authored. The legislation has been about incredibly important issues like Nuclear Non-Proliferation. He knows that to get things done you need a MAJORITY of Congress to go along with you. Hillary can't get that kind of majority support because of her "fighting".
trésjolie1 trésjolie1 9 years
But don't listen to me, I'm just a Obama supporter. :robot:
trésjolie1 trésjolie1 9 years
I just saw the whole debate and I think it was one of Obama's strongest, even though it, the debate itself was not too thrilling. 20 debates; and I'm done! I don't think it was her strongest debate, especially thinking about NAFTA and Iraq. Also, her timing about the SNL comment was a little off, it would have had more weight if it came up naturally rather than some rehearsed line she was waiting to say. I think Obama was very graceful when all those Hillary clips where shown, and the photo. He keeps the fight around the issues, and it seemed to bother her to not be able to throw more jabs. I think her experience argument seemed weaker after pointing out that she didn't follow through on her promise to upstate New York to create new jobs, even if she said it was because she expected Al Gore to be President. Sounds strange to take that for granted, and make promises based on an outcome of a different election than the one you are running for. All in all, pretty good on both sides. Maybe at this point they are mostly preaching to their respective choirs.
Bettyesque Bettyesque 9 years
"I have a great deal of respect for Sen. Obama, but we have differences," she said. "In the last several days, some of those differences in tactics and choices that Sen. Obama's campaign has made regarding fliers and mailers and other information that has been put out ... have been very disturbing to me." Wishy Washy .... Obama said the mailings are common practice in political campaigns and raise valid differences between his stances and Clinton's. He said he, too, has been targeted by negative Clinton advertisements. Doesnt that go without saying.... Its the same thing over and over with these two. March 4 can't come soon enough! At this point I find the Saturday Night Live debates more interesting. :rotfl:
MrsJigglesworth MrsJigglesworth 9 years
I agree w/ you, harmonyfrance... especially this line: I guess the bottom line is I trust her. I think she's tough, brilliant, and not afraid to fight for what is right. :highfive:
pinkdragonfly pinkdragonfly 9 years
Problem is, I don't always agree with Hillary when she "thinks" she's right. And I don't like her tone.
Cadet Cadet 9 years
harmonyfrance, you're my new best friend! While I'm not certain that "If he is elected he will do nothing but disappoint us because he has set the bar so high. If she is elected I think she will actually get stuff done." I do agree with you that she's human, portrays herself as such, and I feel as if he is seen by many of his, especially young, supporters as "the messiah of the free world." That kind of identity terrifies me. I think he's brilliant. I love his calm demeanor. I wish Clinton could let some things roll off her back and admit that she's made poor decisions more readily, but I think that as soon as she does admit to anything the GOP will jump all over her. She's between a rock and a hard place. If I felt that Obama was showing me more than just this person who believes, hopes, dreams... I understand that he has, and will continue, to do good things for the American people. I just don't think he's experienced enough to be president yet.
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 9 years
This is so annoying. Why does her "tone" matter? I don't care about her "tone." I care if she will fight for us in the White House. If I were her I'd be pissed at the way the media was biased against me too. I am so glad that Tina Fey came out and said that on SNL. I was on my feet. She is a passionate woman. She is a formidable woman. She gets heated. She makes mistakes. She is human. At least she is representing herself as human and not as the messiah of the free world. She isn't perfect...but guess what? Neither is Obama. He just hides it better than she does. When I look at Hillary I know that she will fight tooth and nail to get what she believes in done. When I look at Obama I see someone who will be in the White House but shouldn't be there quite yet. He is too concerned with getting everyone to like him. It's like a popularity contest...especially with the youth. I'm sick of people treating my support of Hillary Clinton like a dirty little it's something to be pitied. He is not saying anything remarkably different than her. He just has more showmanship. Their policies are VERY similar. People just "like" him better. I do respect Obama and think that he is qualified. He just isn't the best one for the job. I'm sure that most people who support him do so because they are well informed on his policies and experience. I, however, have the unfortunate viewpoint of someone who is surrounded by young people that are so caught up in the hype that they have no idea what he stands for. They treat him like a rockstar. They think he's attractive or they really like the "Yes we can" video. It makes me nuts. I guess the bottom line is I trust her. I think she's tough, brilliant, and not afraid to fight for what is right. Obama is very inspirational, but twenty minutes later nothing he says really sticks with me on a realistic level. If he is elected he will do nothing but disappoint us because he has set the bar so high. If she is elected I think she will actually get stuff done. Sorry for the book. :) “Probably my worst quality is that I get very passionate about what I think is right.” -Hillary Clinton
Cadet Cadet 9 years
Sometimes, I wish that when they agreed on something or made jokes they would give one another a high five. It would sure make me feel more connected to them as human beings. Plus I think it would be totally radical!
kscincotta kscincotta 9 years
I thought when she talked policy, she did well. She explained her health care mandate better this time than in recent debates for sure. But when she got whiny about always being asked questions first and tried to play politics with Obama, she came across as desperate. Obama seemed pretty even keel over the course of the debate, which played well for me. He didn't say anything that struck me in particular this time, but his overall tone was more appealing.
CitizenSugar CitizenSugar 9 years
Okay! And now to make some celebratory 20th debate tacos!
Beauty Beauty 9 years
Mrs. Alan Greenspan!
precious-p precious-p 9 years
Good debate, guys! Obama is my winner.
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