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Should "So Help Me God" Be Banned at the Inauguration?

Should "So Help Me God" Be Banned at the Inauguration?

A group of atheists and non-religious organizations want Barack Obama's inauguration ceremony, which will take place Jan. 20, to exclude any references to God and religion. In a lawsuit filed this week, the plaintiffs demanded that the words "so help me God" not be added to the end of the president's oath of office. Similar unsuccessful suits were filed before the 2001 and 2005 Inaugurations, but this one claims "there can be no purpose for placing 'so help me God' in an oath or sponsoring prayers to God, other than promoting the particular point of view that God exists."

Obama will follow presidential forefathers and use the Bible Abraham Lincoln used for his inauguration. Do you think the reference and use of the Bible interferes with the Constitution's ban on the establishment of religion?


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tiabia tiabia 8 years
did NOT mean to have that in all italics :-/
tiabia tiabia 8 years
"Did you know when ice cream sales go up, so do instances of rape? It's true, I'm not joking" that is comparing ice cream sales, with rape instances. This is NOT an example of a comparison. It is an example of a correlation, which is defined as Correlation: : a relation existing between phenomena or things or between mathematical or statistical variables which tend to vary, be associated, or occur together in a way not expected on the basis of chance alone
True-Song True-Song 8 years
Do you think I'm trying to say that violence against women is like ice cream?
CaterpillarGirl CaterpillarGirl 8 years
"Did you know when ice cream sales go up, so do instances of rape? It's true, I'm not joking" that is comparing ice cream sales, with rape instances. Compare: to examine two or more people or things in order to discover similarities and differences between them
geebers geebers 8 years
Damn it my post got CUT!!! Im so angry. (Sorry I did not mean to use Damn). Anyway I was agreeing with that and adding my thoughts but now I am too lazy to retype it.
geebers geebers 8 years
"My guess is the correlation has less to do with how good a person you are and more to do with belonging to a social organization that sets up organized volunteer opportunities." <--yes and to add to that as I said before that organizations are easier to track and study than an individual. I know for a fact I volunteer and donate far more than some of the very religious people I know and I still don't think that proves that liberals/non-religious people are more charitable. Personally, I do not believe there is a way to prove who is more charitable because there is no legit way to study that unless you collected a person's religious affiliation and beliefs as they donated or volunteered.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
I ask this with sincerity--what comparison did I make?
CaterpillarGirl CaterpillarGirl 8 years
Kas, i didnt think she was trying to belittle it either, I just dont like it used as a comparison. its all good.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
I certainly do not make light of that crime, and I'm very sorry that happened to you. Professor Volokh's example of causation vs. correlation, though, is perhaps one of the best known in academia. It's the classic example I thought we all learned freshman year in college. I do not make light of rape, not because I don't want to offend rape victims but because I don't want to offend anyone by trivializing what I think is the most horrible crime there is, but I don't see how my bringing it up in that context would be offensive in any way.
sham28 sham28 8 years
It's a ritual, and I would rather see people focusing on things like world peace than semantics. But with freedom and democracy comes tremendous crying and whining from people about dumb things. So I guess I'll take it.
kastarte2 kastarte2 8 years
CG I don't think TS is trying to belittle the experience of rape, I think she was just referring to a study. So sorry to hear that something so horrible happened to you! :hug:
margokhal margokhal 8 years
How did this thread go from "Should 'So Help Me God' Be Banned from the Inauguration" to "Religious People Are More Charitable Than Non-Religious People"? Back on-topic, like I said before: The phrase "so help me God" has NOT always been said or used by past presidents. It is considered tradition only because it has been ASSUMED that George Washington said it at his inauguration, though all the written records of what happened at the time DON'T have the phrase transcribed. It *already is* the President-Elect's decision to either swear or affirm, say "so help me God" or not. The only thing they can't change is the oath to protect and lead the country - which isn't made to ANY deity. What does it *matter* to people who aren't religious/don't believe in God/think prayers are empty if *one PERSON* says "so help me God"? If God doesn't exist, then it's just an empty phrase, right? The sky doesn't fall, nobody dies if it's said. It doesn't cause any harm or require anyone else to believe that there's a God. For those reasons, I believe this lawsuit is pointless and silly. As for religious/non-religious people trying to beat each other at giving...@_@ as long as SOMEONE is doing SOMETHING for others, who cares? [Though the argument does remind me of a song I heard in church on Sunday, "you can't beat God giving". Which, if you believe [in the Christian God, I should specify], is pretty much true.]
CaterpillarGirl CaterpillarGirl 8 years
True Song, as a victim of rape, i dont like that you are using that act to make your point. i find it appalling actually no matter what you were trying to say.
hypnoticmix hypnoticmix 8 years
Wow! I get the feeling there are a lot of Citizen Sugars unbunching their panties tonight honey, LOL!
I donate to charities, but you would have no way of putting that information into studies, because I don't claim it on my taxes to get the money back. I also donate my time, but you would have no way of putting that information into studies, because I don't feel the need to join a group to go pick up trash at a local park, I take the initiative and do so for no recognition. Perhaps, non-religious people don't have to feel like a part of a group to know they are doing good.
em1282 em1282 8 years
(As in, it matters to me, but what does it matter in terms of me being able to, I dont know, lead the country?)
em1282 em1282 8 years
WHO REALLY CARES should apply to the question of whether or not religious people are more charitable. I'm religious (or however you want to view me as a liberal Catholic_ and give money to AIDS charities, leukemia charities, public TV (go WTTW Chicago! :woohoo: ), and I give blood, and I volunteer, but...who cares? Does this matter?
harmonyfrance harmonyfrance 8 years
:rotfl: I'm drinking out of a nalgene right now! Aaaaaaaaand TS I concur with your other findings. ;)
Jude-C Jude-C 8 years
I just read a study that shows that disputed survey findings cause 59% of all Internet fights. :p
kastarte2 kastarte2 8 years
"Kas, I read a study that showed women who voted for Obama have more orgasms on average." I didn't need a survey to tell me that. ;)
StolzeMama StolzeMama 8 years
I can see that point TS. But most data is such, because it isn't a controlled environment. You should know that.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
Did you know when ice cream sales go up, so do instances of rape? It's true, I'm not joking. Here's the blog of the guy who did the study (it's far down the page...) And here's his raw data: Does eating ice cream cause rape then? No, of course not. They both correlate to warm weather. In the same way, I think it might be a bit premature, even if this guy's data is correct, to say that being religious makes you more charitable.
True-Song True-Song 8 years
Well, sh!t!
StolzeMama StolzeMama 8 years
Wait, maybe they gave them coffee, it probably makes them more likely to give... Wait, maybe they had sex the night before therefore putting them in a good mood and more willing to donate. Oh and on that note, maybe it is the conservatives that aren't married who give more, because having a bitter ugly unhappy conservative marriage(as I have heard some on here call most conservative marriages)makes you angry and not likely to give, so it must be that the married liberals give more since their marriages are happier. See I can give what ifs and maybes to invalidate anything also... doesn't make those what ifs mean anything other than wasting space on the internet.
StolzeMama StolzeMama 8 years
TS I gave a name of a book and information about the author. Look up rules on debating and you will see, I only have to rebut it if you have a valid argument. Which you didn't. You had what ifs. And I only brought it up simply because it was what UnDave was referencing. Read my first post. Sh!t you are all out for blood lately. I look in previous posts and found this information. You were all arguing that it didn't exist, I posted the information to the book. Oh wait but you want me to go in and find out the exact study parameters. Sorry, but i don't ask any of you for that info when you post a survey/ book etc. I look it up and post what I found to counter what you put.
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