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Texas Republicans Vote for Clinton — Good Strategy?

Not sure if you caught The Notion link in Link Time about Rush Limbaugh's master plan to help Republicans win. The conservative radio personality urged Texas Republicans to vote for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary. On Tuesday night, Rush told Fox News:

They're in the midst of tearing themselves apart right now. It is fascinating to watch, and it's all going to stop if Hillary loses.

I've heard accounts from Texas poll workers, who say Republicans in fact voted for Clinton. One Texan Republican, turned Hillary "supporter," wanted her vote to count, but was angered by the big "Democrat" stamp placed on her ballot. You can't have your spoiler and eat it, too!

The Dems have tried this trick before. urged Michigan Dems to vote for Mitt Romney. What do you think about Rush's strategy? Are the Republicans benefiting from a drawn-out Democratic primary?


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Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
"Where was the concern,the outrage when Democrats were urged to vote for McCain over Romney. What goes around comes around." "They started it" didn't work as an excuse in the 4th grade. I don't think it should be allowed to serve as a response in the political arena.
Grandpa Grandpa 9 years
Where was the concern,the outrage when Democrats were urged to vote for McCain over Romney. What goes around comes around.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 9 years
I wasn't directing that comment at you in any way, just at people in general who makes comments like, "Oh, Republicans are so unethical." And I was simply stating my view, as you did. Maybe you should heed your own advice and not look for personal attacks in my comments, either. Anyway, I have to return to work, but I also respect your opinion and look forward to exchanging ideas in the future.
Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
I never said you argued it wasn't unethical - I expressed my own view. Going into all the details about the legal issues behind changing political affiliation is really beside the point. I presented it in answer to your anecdotal evidence about Ohio polling station practices. My last post brought the discussion back to the actual issue at hand. I was also very clear in my posts above that it is unethical for either party to pull this kind of stunt. I did not "act like this is something that is exclusive to Republicans." In particular my above post in which I say "... it us unethical to vote in the opposing primary to try to push your own party forward", post 23 where I say "Lying is not a Republican or a Democratic value" and in 27 where I say "I don't think there is any problem with people crossing over - just in people crossing over to vote in Democratic primaries with an intention of voting Republican in general elections (or vice versa)" Please refer to these posts for the complete context. As for Rush Limbaugh - I am completely uninterested in anyone who follows Rush Limbaugh but am equally non-plussed by anyone who ever followed him, ceding their judgment and the necessity to think for themselves by declaring him- or herself a "ditto-head." I view these people as a small subset of individuals whom I do not believe are representative of either Republicans or Democrats. As I mentioned, I am the only Democrat in a family of Republicans, but not a one of my family members would waste a minute of their time on Rush. They are traditional Republicans, not neo-cons and we see eye to eye on many issues despite widely divergent political affiliation. I have enjoyed our discussion and look forward to exchanging ideas in future. Please do not look for cloaked personal attack in what I say. We don't have to believe the same things to learn from each other or to share a political discussion. If I did not respect your opinion I would not have taken the time to engage with you.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 9 years
I wasn't arguing that it's not unethical, I was just suggesting different possibilities to spur the discussion. By the way, Democrats did this in large numbers when Clinton was up for re-election, so please don't act like this is something that is exclusive to Republicans. Finally, most Republicans don't even follow Rush any more. On Citizen a while ago, there was an article that stated that neither Republicans nor Democrats really like Rush all that much. By the way, something unethical in politics, never!
Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
I don't know what the rules are in Texas, but in Ohio, Bill Cunningham was urging Republicans to vote for Hillary. Ultimately, whether it is a felony as in Ohio or not, it us unethical to vote in the opposing primary to try to push your own party forward. There seems to be a prevalent notion that the ends justify the means and that it is more important to get your candidate in office than to allow everyone their equal vote. Attempting to skew the vote by pushing for an opponent you think is easier to beat (or that prolongs an primary race and hence drains the resources of whomever the final candidate will be) is cheating. There are no upstanding "family values" there.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 9 years
Interesting...I wonder if the rules are different in Texas and that's why Rush was encouraging people there to change affiliation and not people in Ohio.
Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
You show id because you have to be matched to the list. My nephew and my sister both had to fill out forms - they were uncomfortable with it because the forms were xeroxed. It is very likely that some poll workers did not take the time to do the checking. The poll worker is supposed to check which primary you voted in the last time, however, and challenge the voter if they are switching affiliations. In Ohio, there is not a deadline to switch, however you are supposed to fill out an affidavit (form 10-X or 10-W) as described below. That is done to prevent precisely what did happen - Republicans voting to upset the choice of the Democrats in deciding their own candidate. While it is unlikely that anyone will be prosecuted, a voter who signs a false affidavit can be charged with a 5th degree felony in the State of Ohio Here is the paragraph from the Ohio Revised Code: Ohio Revised Code 3513.20 Effect of challenge to voter at primary, states in part: “Before any challenged person shall be allowed to vote at a primary election , the person shall make a statement, under penalty of election falsification, before one of the precinct officials, blanks for which shall be furnished by the board of elections, giving name, age, residence, length of residence in the precinct, county, and state; stating that the person desires to be affiliated with and supports the principles of the political party whose ballot the person desires to vote; and giving all other facts necessary to determine whether the person is entitled to vote in that primary election. The statement shall be returned to the office of the board with the pollbooks and tally sheets . . . . “ The statute that deals with people falsely voting in a primary who have no intention of voting Democrat in the general election is as follows: 3599.36 Election falsification. No person, either orally or in writing, on oath lawfully administered or in a statement made under penalty of election falsification, shall knowingly state a falsehood as to a material matter relating to an election in a proceeding before a court, tribunal, or election official, or in a matter in relation to which an oath or statement under penalty of election falsification is authorized by law, including a statement required for verifying or filing any declaration of candidacy, declaration of intent to be a write-in candidate, nominating petition, or other petition presented to or filed with the secretary of state, a board of elections, or any other public office for the purpose of becoming a candidate for any elective office, including the office of a political party, for the purpose of submitting a question or issue to the electors at an election, or for the purpose of forming a political party. Whoever violates this section is guilty of election falsification, a felony of the fifth degree. Every paper, card, or other document relating to any election matter that calls for a statement to be made under penalty of election falsification shall be accompanied by the following statement in bold face capital letters: “Whoever commits election falsification is guilty of a felony of the fifth degree.”
lilkimbo lilkimbo 9 years
I know that you have to show id, but what does that have to do with which primary you vote in? I just don't see what showing id has to do with switching parties. I have talked to people from other Ohio counties as well, and they just had to say they were switching parties for that election; no one had to sign anything.
Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
It isn't on the screen. In Ohio you have to show id and verify that you are on the list for that polling station. As long as you are on the list, they send you right through to the machines. If you are not on the list you get a provisional ballot to prevent you from going to more than one polling station or from voting in a primary if you are registered with the opposing party.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 9 years
Interesting...I wonder if there was something on the screen where people had to verify or something at my polling place, since they have electronic voting machines.
Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
They are actually supposed to have you sign something to register you as a Democrat. My stepmother's brother had to sign one but from what I understand, they ran out of forms and even ballots in many places. They were handing out Xeroxes of the form at his polling station. Oh an :cheer: fellow Ohioan =)
lilkimbo lilkimbo 9 years
Oh, I was just curious, rattenfreund, because I'm actually from Ohio, also, and no one had to sign anything at my polling place when they got their primary ballots. They just asked which ballot you wanted.
Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
Lilkombo - I am from Ohio, although I studied in Austin TX. I don't think there is any problem with people crossing over - just in people crossing over to vote in Democratic primaries with an intention of voting Republican in general elections (or vice versa). I am the only liberal in a family of lifelong Republicans but all of them are voting Democrat because they do not recognize their party's core values in the neocon agenda. But they have been registered as Democrats since before the last presidential election.
lilkimbo lilkimbo 9 years
Rattenfreund, are you from Texas? Just curious, because I know it's different in different states. Also, like qbert said, I know MANY people who usually vote Republican who switched over and voted for Obama just because they really don't like Hilary. They know McCain has a better chance against Hilary, but would rather see Obama become president than see Hilary become president.
sugarbean sugarbean 9 years
I don't think that the status of Bill's law license really matters. I'm pretty sure that, technically, there are no required qualifications to be a Supreme Court Justice (I know that's the case in Florida, and pretty sure the US is the same). Comforting, isn't it? Realistically, legal qualifications (and other issues) are addressed in the Senate confirmation process -- so the make up of the Senate when a seat becomes available may be the best measure of his confirmation chances (should his wife get the nomination and win the election).
Dbtabm Dbtabm 9 years
Rush Limbaugh is a disgusting, racist, sexist, person. He is filled with bitter hatred and stands against everything that Americans should be for. I wish the media would stop giving him a platform. And yes I realize I'm a hypocrite for even commenting on him but he just makes me so sick. It breaks my heart that there are people out there who think he's great. America is better than that.
Rattenfreund Rattenfreund 9 years
For Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary, they have to sign something stating that they are in fact crossing over to the Democratic Party and will be voting as a Democrat in the General Election. Naturally there is no way to enforce this but does mean that you can only vote in the opposing primary if you are willing to lie. Lying is not a Republican or a Democratic value. Anyone who does this and feels it is more important that his or her candidate get the presidency than that the election be an honest one should forfeit the privilege of voting.
Cassandra57 Cassandra57 9 years
Minor stuff like national elections and the presidency completely aside, I say, let the carnage continue! I'm quite enjoying it, and I think it will get worse before it gets better. As for Supreme Court Justice Bill, what's the current status on his law license? Doing a quick check, it look like the five-year suspension was due to end in January 2006, but I don't know if he requested reinstatement to the bar. Besides, I can't imagine that he would want to return to regular work, I'm sure he has enough to keep him busy already.
qbert qbert 9 years
Both my parents are Texas Republicans. They voted for Obama because they despise Hillary. They have no intent on voting for him come Nov.
janneth janneth 9 years
Rash Limbarge is so gross. Go away.
blondie01 blondie01 9 years
Rush has over 20 million listeners a week! There is no way that he wouldn't have an effect. Now, whether its a strong or weak one I'm not sure, but he certainly has avid followers. I think its a great strategy. And no one can fight it because all parties are guilty of this tactic. Hillary's wins were by no means good news to Obama. There will be more fighting, accusing, and defaming the Democrats will each other, just another thing John Mccain doesn't have to worry about or do for that matter-and his hands will stay clean as well. Obama has played his cards, people already know he is hopeful and optomistic, with universal healthcare plans, etc...hes going to have to bring something new to the table. And there is no doubt that Hillary is going to play hardball, so I think we will be seeing a slightly newer Obama in the future of these Democratic Primaries. Definitely calls for an interesting and fun scenario to watch, atleast for me!
mymellowman mymellowman 9 years
"I'm even torn with the idea of independents voting in the Dem (or Rep) primary." - Rem, we're close to seeing eye to eye again, a little scary, but on I go. :)
Princesskitty22 Princesskitty22 9 years
He's a jerk.
remedios remedios 9 years
This guy's a mean bully, and my mom always taught me to just ignore those people in school. I doubt anyone's going to follow his orders. Of course, I guess they don't call them "dittoheads" for nothing - just follow along blindly without actually using their own heads. As to the strategy - I find it a bit unethical to vote for someone that you don't support just so that person might get the nomination (be it this bobblehead or daily kos). The purpose of a primary is to get the person that you want to represent you in your party. I'm even torn with the idea of independents voting in the Dem (or Rep) primary. I'm not a member of a party, so I shouldn't be trying to choose that party's candidate. Switching parties just to support someone even if you don't support the party also seems questionable, but at least that's got a more ethical motivation. You want someone because you support that person, not because you don't support the person.
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